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All but 13 US states are richer than the Netherlands.All but six are richer than Germany. All but five are richer than Belgium. Only Mississippi is poorer than

All but 13 US states are richer than the Netherlands.All but six are richer than Germany. All but five are richer than Belgium. Only Mississippi is poorer than France or the UK. Every single US state is richer than Italy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states_and_sovereign_states_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states... There is no way you are going to get Americans to voluntarily reduce their standard of living outside of a war. That applies to Europeans, Australians, Canadians, Chinese and everyone else too. Americans aren’t special. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wearing more clothes in winter but it is a consistent vote loser, like all the other realistic proposals for individual action on climate change. This past winter I wore plenty of extra clothes but people like being able to walk around inside in a T-shirt and pants. Everywhere they can afford to they do it more or less as soon as it’s affirdable, maybe with a thirty year generation gap.

benj111 8y ago
"There is no way you are going to get Americans to voluntarily reduce their standard of living" My point is you don't have to reduce your standard of living (quality of life). Does the average American have a better standard of living than the Average European, and is it so much better that it accounts for the much higher carbon footprint? I've never voted for anyone on the basis of wearing more or less clothes. Id hazard a guess that most voters wouldn't identify it as a top 10 issue. Plus didn't Jimmy Carter tell people to wear a sweater?
- barry-cotter 8y ago
  > Does the average American have a better standard of living than the Average European, and is it so much better that it accounts for the much higher carbon footprint? Yes. The only countries with higher average individual consumption than the US are Norway and Switzerland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household_final_consumption_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household... The only country with bigger houses than the US is Australia. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/average-home-size-by-country/article27181802/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/average-h... Jimmy Carter wasn’t re-elected.
  - rypskar 8y ago
    And still Norway have close to half the per capita Co2 footprint and Switzerland close to 1/4 of what USA have https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di... Not sure what this number tell other than that we all in developed countries need to reduce our footprint, but some more than others
  - benj111 8y ago
    You've mentioned gdp, consumption and house size. None of those directly translate to quality of life, although I agree they are strongly correlated. The average European living in a city may not have a car, that is not the same as the average American who lives in a city and doesn't own a car. European cities are have a lot better public transportation, so you don't need a car. In my experience houses in the city tend to be smaller than houses in the country. But the city is where the wealth is created, so it doesn't seem to me that larger houses should be an indicator of wealth in and of itself. I'm undecided whether living in the city with a smaller house but higher income would lead to a higher quality of life versus living in a bigger house in the country, but with a lower income. I suspect its probably down to personal preference.
    - ryanwaggoner 8y ago
      I love Europe for the reasons you mentioned, but it's a different culture. Most Americans have no interest in living a European-style life and would see it as a huge decrease in their quality of life, especially if it were forced on them. Which means it's effectively impossible to do, because as soon as you try, they'll vote you out of office. Short of suspending elections, I don't see how democracies make the level of changes needed until we're actually suffering badly from climate change. But historically it doesn't seem like the types of people who become tyrants do so because it's the only path available to save the society from itself.

benj111 8y ago

"There is no way you are going to get Americans to voluntarily reduce their standard of living" My point is you don't have to reduce your standard of living (quality of life). Does the average American have a better standard of living than the Average European, and is it so much better that it accounts for the much higher carbon footprint? I've never voted for anyone on the basis of wearing more or less clothes. Id hazard a guess that most voters wouldn't identify it as a top 10 issue. Plus didn't Jimmy Carter tell people to wear a sweater?

barry-cotter 8y ago
> Does the average American have a better standard of living than the Average European, and is it so much better that it accounts for the much higher carbon footprint? Yes. The only countries with higher average individual consumption than the US are Norway and Switzerland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household_final_consumption_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household... The only country with bigger houses than the US is Australia. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/average-home-size-by-country/article27181802/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/average-h... Jimmy Carter wasn’t re-elected.
- rypskar 8y ago
  And still Norway have close to half the per capita Co2 footprint and Switzerland close to 1/4 of what USA have https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di... Not sure what this number tell other than that we all in developed countries need to reduce our footprint, but some more than others
- benj111 8y ago
  You've mentioned gdp, consumption and house size. None of those directly translate to quality of life, although I agree they are strongly correlated. The average European living in a city may not have a car, that is not the same as the average American who lives in a city and doesn't own a car. European cities are have a lot better public transportation, so you don't need a car. In my experience houses in the city tend to be smaller than houses in the country. But the city is where the wealth is created, so it doesn't seem to me that larger houses should be an indicator of wealth in and of itself. I'm undecided whether living in the city with a smaller house but higher income would lead to a higher quality of life versus living in a bigger house in the country, but with a lower income. I suspect its probably down to personal preference.
  - ryanwaggoner 8y ago
    I love Europe for the reasons you mentioned, but it's a different culture. Most Americans have no interest in living a European-style life and would see it as a huge decrease in their quality of life, especially if it were forced on them. Which means it's effectively impossible to do, because as soon as you try, they'll vote you out of office. Short of suspending elections, I don't see how democracies make the level of changes needed until we're actually suffering badly from climate change. But historically it doesn't seem like the types of people who become tyrants do so because it's the only path available to save the society from itself.