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Poverty for all! Smaller houses and apartments, heated less, wearing more clothes in winter and less AC in summer, all combined with a collapse in international
by barry-cotter 8y ago
Poverty for all! Smaller houses and apartments, heated less, wearing more clothes in winter and less AC in summer, all combined with a collapse in international travel. That’s a real vote winner.
Technological solutions, megadeaths to reduce consumption or dealing with climate change. These are the only realistic options. China and India aren’t staying poor.
- fastbeef 8y agoYou leave Dave Mustaine out of this!
- Scarblac 8y agoIMO the choice is between choosing to reduce consumption or being forced to by megadeaths, probably we only have a little choice in the degree in which either happens. Technology may help a little with the first.
- solotronics 8y agoI just don't see how anyone will choose to lower consumption even to save themselves. Just look at how China is cannibalizing their environment for short term growth.
- PeterisP 8y agoAt least some people consider that it's plausible to choose between other people far away reducing consumption or those other people far away experiencing megadeaths. I mean, megadeaths in poor third world coastal regions won't necessarily force people in New York to reduce consumption. If (for example) sea level rise starts threatening New York directly, then it can afford Netherlands-style solutions that somewhat mitigate the local consequences.
- benj111 8y agoCompare the US and Western Europe. Europe has lower Co2 emissions, smaller houses, and still maintains quality of life. No doubt you could go much further along that road. And what's wrong with wearing more clothes in the winter?!
- llukas 8y ago> And what's wrong with wearing more clothes in the winter?! Likely house lacking enough insulation - this is what is wrong.
- benj111 8y agoWell insulating the body is more efficient than insulating a whole house. Also each person can choose their own individual comfort level. I'm not averse to building insulation either though.
- frosted-flakes 8y agoWhat, should I wear gloves too? That'll make typing really pleasant. When I'm working in a room that's less than about 17°C–18°C, my hands tend to get very cold, as do my feet.
- benj111 8y agoYou can wear gloves if you want, as I've tried to make clear I don't think theres anything wrong with wearing clothes indoors, I do personally draw the line at jumper and thicker socks in winter. There's nothing wrong with building insulation either. If your hands and feet are getting cold at 17-18c you're obviously blessed with a better climate than I.
- frosted-flakes 8y agoI suppose I was being a bit confrontational there. Insulation and air sealing makes a huge difference, especially in cold climates like where I live, where it often gets down to -25°C or colder in winter. I live in a basement with very old, leaky windows, so the floor never really warms up. When I'm at my computer I tend to not move much, and in that position there's poor blood flow to my hands. I turn up the electric heater when I need to (electricity is very expensive here), but I normally rely on the gas stove at the other end of the house. I actually have no problem being outside when it's cold, and even prefer it over summer. The difference is that I don't stand in one position when I'm outside. When I'm outside I'm shovelling snow, turning a wrench, or walking.
- perfunctory 8y ago> Poverty for all! Not need to be so dramatic. Upgrading one's iPhone every other year instead of every year hardly constitutes poverty. I believe that fighting climate change vs quality of life is false dichotomy. We can do both. See this comment for example https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19267752 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19267752
- barry-cotter 8y agoI absolutely despise America’s car centric planning and do not plan to ever live there. I too would much prefer to live some place where you can bike all over the place. Good luck convincing Midwesterners or Texans who think nothing of driving someplace for four hours that a massive gas tax is worth it. Good luck convincing everyone in the suburbs to abandon their homes to move into a city. Good luck convincing people used to taking two holidays to the suna year that they can have one every two years. What I think or you think does not matter. What the median voter thinks matters and if you try to make them consume less outside of a war they will vote you out.
- perfunctory 8y agoSo, moral equivalent of war is the only option then?
- ryanwaggoner 8y agoYou can't just call something a war and make it so that people are willing to sacrifice for it, even if you think the threat is equivalent (or greater) to that of actual warfare. See the war on poverty and the war on drugs for an example. Do you really think Americans would have turned their lives upside down to win the war on poverty?