3 ms·

Piracy is not theft because there's no subtraction of goods. This is not a justification, just logic.

reason 16y ago
Would you consider the distribution of a secret recipe, obtained via unauthorized means, as theft, given the potential blow to the business of a restaurant famously known for said recipe?
- jamesbritt 16y ago
  "given the potential blow to the business of a restaurant famously known for said recipe?" What difference should that make to whether it is theft or not? Presenting the matter in terms of a trade secret, instead of bits that are otherwise legitimately available (albeit for a price) is an interesting twist (regardless of whatever financial impact it may have). I still don't see it as "taking something away from someone else" theft, but (for reasons I haven't quite sorted out) it does seem different from making the latest released Kid Rock opus available on MediaFire. Maybe it's the privacy aspect. If someone obtains my or your private medical records and posts them on Wikileaks I'd say it was immoral. Whether or not it's technically theft would not be the issue; it would be just as bad if my own doctor decided to do it.
- Fargren 16y ago
  Theft is the substraction of goods. What you describe may be criminal behaviour, but it's not theft, the same way it's not breaking and entering.
  - fauigerzigerk 16y ago
    But in this case something is clearly subtracted, unlike in the case of piracy. Yet I'm not sure if industrial espionage is usually treated as theft.
    - mooism2 16y ago
      The secret is subtracted, but is not taken by someone else, unlike with theft. Instead it is destroyed. If you want to equate it to a physical crime, vandalism or criminal damage would seem to be a better fit.
      - fauigerzigerk 16y ago
        Yes, if the information is simply published vandalism or sabotage would be a fitting category. But if it is sold to a third party it is more similar to theft. In any event, it's probably much more useful to have a separate legal concept for "piracy" that does justice to the specifics of digital goods and the way they are used.
mumble 16y ago
With software and music media etc. you don't buy the physical good (the CD, DVD etc. which you seem to be talking about) but the right to use it, listen to it etc. One could argue though that this mode of thinking is inherently broken because you usually don't get the right to use it, listen to it etc. under any condition but only with the right software/hardware equipment. And since you're usually not allowed to make copies or to transfer it to another system, the correct use of the good equates the good anyway.

Would you consider the distribution of a secret recipe, obtained via unauthorized means, as theft, given the potential blow to the business of a restaurant famously known for said recipe?

jamesbritt 16y ago
"given the potential blow to the business of a restaurant famously known for said recipe?" What difference should that make to whether it is theft or not? Presenting the matter in terms of a trade secret, instead of bits that are otherwise legitimately available (albeit for a price) is an interesting twist (regardless of whatever financial impact it may have). I still don't see it as "taking something away from someone else" theft, but (for reasons I haven't quite sorted out) it does seem different from making the latest released Kid Rock opus available on MediaFire. Maybe it's the privacy aspect. If someone obtains my or your private medical records and posts them on Wikileaks I'd say it was immoral. Whether or not it's technically theft would not be the issue; it would be just as bad if my own doctor decided to do it.
Fargren 16y ago
Theft is the substraction of goods. What you describe may be criminal behaviour, but it's not theft, the same way it's not breaking and entering.
- fauigerzigerk 16y ago
  But in this case something is clearly subtracted, unlike in the case of piracy. Yet I'm not sure if industrial espionage is usually treated as theft.
  - mooism2 16y ago
    The secret is subtracted, but is not taken by someone else, unlike with theft. Instead it is destroyed. If you want to equate it to a physical crime, vandalism or criminal damage would seem to be a better fit.
    - fauigerzigerk 16y ago
      Yes, if the information is simply published vandalism or sabotage would be a fitting category. But if it is sold to a third party it is more similar to theft. In any event, it's probably much more useful to have a separate legal concept for "piracy" that does justice to the specifics of digital goods and the way they are used.

mumble 16y ago

With software and music media etc. you don't buy the physical good (the CD, DVD etc. which you seem to be talking about) but the right to use it, listen to it etc. One could argue though that this mode of thinking is inherently broken because you usually don't get the right to use it, listen to it etc. under any condition but only with the right software/hardware equipment. And since you're usually not allowed to make copies or to transfer it to another system, the correct use of the good equates the good anyway.