6 ms·

San Bernardino County is home to the Ivanpah Solar Power Facility [1], which is a mirror-focused solar thermal power plant. It generates a lot of glare and is c

San Bernardino County is home to the Ivanpah Solar Power Facility [1], which is a mirror-focused solar thermal power plant. It generates a lot of glare and is controversial for its impact on animals. It also took several years to ramp up to its promised output. Solar panels don't have problem with glare, but the landscape of the county has large viewsheds of sloping treeless desert, so any facility will have a large visual impact. It also disturbs the ground and replaces the desert scrub with actual bare ground, which is more susceptible to dust, and dust is a problem that plant operators try to combat [2], but have long accepted as an inconvenient reality of siting in the desert. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility [2] https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7274289 https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7274289

JKCalhoun 8y ago
> Ivanpah Solar Power Facility Blew my mind when I drove past that (on the way to Las Vegas?). I swear it appeared as though the air was incandescing at the top of the tower where all the sun's rays were focused. Def something out of a Sci-Fi film....
- almost_usual 8y ago
  You truly don’t understand how blinding it is until you drive past it. I didn’t realize it was in San Bernardino. I saw it driving from Las Vegas to SF. Remember it being near Zzyzx which reminded me of Sonic Youth music video.
  - dr01d 8y ago
    Birds literally burst into flames in the air.
  - ktsmith 8y ago
    There's the Crescent Dunes Solar Plant outside of Tonopah, NV which is also on the way to Las Vegas. It's further away from the road I believe but it's equally as blinding. The first time I drove past it I was shocked. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crescent_Dunes_Solar_Energy_Project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crescent_Dunes_Solar_Energy_Pr...
- gmueckl 8y ago
  Definitely. Unfortunately I was driving by in heavy traffic (memorial day weekend rush to Las Vegas) or I would have slowed to find a safe spot to stop and take that sight in.
- samstokes 8y ago
  The glowing tower contains molten salt, used to store the focused solar energy. [1] I never knew that was a thing until I too drove past it. It was one of the more memorable sights on a 3000 mile road trip. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_thermal_energy#Molten_salt_storage https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_thermal_energy#Molten_...
  - pmikesell 8y ago
    Ivanpah uses water, not salts: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- tzakrajs 8y ago
  Or perhaps Fallout: New Vegas....
jadell 8y ago
IANABotanist, but I wonder if there are plants that do well in sandy soil and shade that could be used as ground cover underneath the panels and keep the dust down.
- lightedman 8y ago
  In the desert, many plants simply will not survive without regular shade, so yes.
- topspin 8y ago
  IANABotanist either, but your real problem isn't finding the right species of ground cover. It's coming up with sufficient water in the Mojave desert.
  - eecc 8y ago
    Might be an interesting terraforming project: bring some water along with the electrical infra, plant drought resistant shrubs and watch as they start covering soil, capturing moisture and so on...
    - evgen 8y ago
      Or maybe just leave the desert ecosystem alone? I am not sure why people think that a desert is bare and empty, I guess most just assume that because you can't see it as easily as you can in a forest that there is nothing there, but desert ecosystems are much more fragile than most other ecosystems and do not adjust easily to random interference.
      - blunte 8y ago
        Any human activity had an impact on the earth. At some point even the most well-intentioned of us have to accept that some big benefits may come at some (ideally lesser) costs. I would ask those locals if they are ok with having no electricity other than what they can generate themselves on their own houses. Desert may be a fragile area, but what is the real impact of its disruption? Everywhere there are tradeoffs.
johnmarinelli 8y ago
I grew up in San Bernardino County and never knew about this valuable info, thanks internet stranger!
usrusr 8y ago
> Solar panels don't have problem with glare You clearly haven't been on a highway leading straight towards a hillside panel cluster [1] at that particular time of day and year when the reflection trail of the panels passes over the road. It's much worse than going towards dawn or sunset because those are toned down do much by atmospheric attenuation. All you can do is blindly maintaining speed and hoping that nobody in front of you panics. We have a lot to learn about panel placement and permits, maybe we need to deliberately add jitter to panel orientation in locations where the reflection beam would pass over sensitive locations like high speed roads or even go back to heliostat installations there. (Or at least have some minor articulation capabilities to aim the reflection away) [1] http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=NM32&daddr=E56&geocode=Fetk7gIdUjO0AA%3D%3D%3BFWQ77gIdqIm0AA%3D%3D&dirflg=w http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=NM32&daddr=E56&geocode=Fet... I think it was at the location marked in the link, the end points of the route mark the glare source and target. IIRC it is an unrestricted stretch, where on a Sunday when trucks are not permitted even the slow lane often travels at 150 kph or more
- moron4hire 8y ago
  EDIT: I apologize. I misunderstood the statement. 
  - phyzome 8y ago
    The problem is that it's coming from ground level, instead of up in the sky.
  - usrusr 8y ago
    When the reflection hits the sun is higher in the sky. The almost tangential rays at sunset/sunrise have a much longer intersection with earth's atmosphere. Edit: no problem, maybe I could have been more clear :)

JKCalhoun 8y ago

> Ivanpah Solar Power Facility Blew my mind when I drove past that (on the way to Las Vegas?). I swear it appeared as though the air was incandescing at the top of the tower where all the sun's rays were focused. Def something out of a Sci-Fi film....

almost_usual 8y ago
You truly don’t understand how blinding it is until you drive past it. I didn’t realize it was in San Bernardino. I saw it driving from Las Vegas to SF. Remember it being near Zzyzx which reminded me of Sonic Youth music video.
- dr01d 8y ago
  Birds literally burst into flames in the air.
- ktsmith 8y ago
  There's the Crescent Dunes Solar Plant outside of Tonopah, NV which is also on the way to Las Vegas. It's further away from the road I believe but it's equally as blinding. The first time I drove past it I was shocked. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crescent_Dunes_Solar_Energy_Project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crescent_Dunes_Solar_Energy_Pr...
gmueckl 8y ago
Definitely. Unfortunately I was driving by in heavy traffic (memorial day weekend rush to Las Vegas) or I would have slowed to find a safe spot to stop and take that sight in.
samstokes 8y ago
The glowing tower contains molten salt, used to store the focused solar energy. [1] I never knew that was a thing until I too drove past it. It was one of the more memorable sights on a 3000 mile road trip. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_thermal_energy#Molten_salt_storage https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_thermal_energy#Molten_...
- pmikesell 8y ago
  Ivanpah uses water, not salts: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
tzakrajs 8y ago
Or perhaps Fallout: New Vegas....

jadell 8y ago

IANABotanist, but I wonder if there are plants that do well in sandy soil and shade that could be used as ground cover underneath the panels and keep the dust down.

lightedman 8y ago
In the desert, many plants simply will not survive without regular shade, so yes.
topspin 8y ago
IANABotanist either, but your real problem isn't finding the right species of ground cover. It's coming up with sufficient water in the Mojave desert.
- eecc 8y ago
  Might be an interesting terraforming project: bring some water along with the electrical infra, plant drought resistant shrubs and watch as they start covering soil, capturing moisture and so on...
  - evgen 8y ago
    Or maybe just leave the desert ecosystem alone? I am not sure why people think that a desert is bare and empty, I guess most just assume that because you can't see it as easily as you can in a forest that there is nothing there, but desert ecosystems are much more fragile than most other ecosystems and do not adjust easily to random interference.
    - blunte 8y ago
      Any human activity had an impact on the earth. At some point even the most well-intentioned of us have to accept that some big benefits may come at some (ideally lesser) costs. I would ask those locals if they are ok with having no electricity other than what they can generate themselves on their own houses. Desert may be a fragile area, but what is the real impact of its disruption? Everywhere there are tradeoffs.

johnmarinelli 8y ago

I grew up in San Bernardino County and never knew about this valuable info, thanks internet stranger!

usrusr 8y ago

> Solar panels don't have problem with glare You clearly haven't been on a highway leading straight towards a hillside panel cluster [1] at that particular time of day and year when the reflection trail of the panels passes over the road. It's much worse than going towards dawn or sunset because those are toned down do much by atmospheric attenuation. All you can do is blindly maintaining speed and hoping that nobody in front of you panics. We have a lot to learn about panel placement and permits, maybe we need to deliberately add jitter to panel orientation in locations where the reflection beam would pass over sensitive locations like high speed roads or even go back to heliostat installations there. (Or at least have some minor articulation capabilities to aim the reflection away) [1] http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=NM32&daddr=E56&geocode=Fetk7gIdUjO0AA%3D%3D%3BFWQ77gIdqIm0AA%3D%3D&dirflg=w http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=NM32&daddr=E56&geocode=Fet... I think it was at the location marked in the link, the end points of the route mark the glare source and target. IIRC it is an unrestricted stretch, where on a Sunday when trucks are not permitted even the slow lane often travels at 150 kph or more

moron4hire 8y ago
EDIT: I apologize. I misunderstood the statement. 
- phyzome 8y ago
  The problem is that it's coming from ground level, instead of up in the sky.
- usrusr 8y ago
  When the reflection hits the sun is higher in the sky. The almost tangential rays at sunset/sunrise have a much longer intersection with earth's atmosphere. Edit: no problem, maybe I could have been more clear :)