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> For a while in the late 20th century, it felt like these sorts of actions were beyond realpolitik and there would be true international condemnation and shame

> For a while in the late 20th century, it felt like these sorts of actions were beyond realpolitik and there would be true international condemnation and shame. I wish those days were still with us. It's personally been very eye-opening for me over the past decade to see just how much the size of a country's economy can wielded as club to silence international opposition and how easily the international community goes along with it. I was always aware intellectually that the world revolves around economics/business/trade interests, but seeing so many otherwise liberal/progressive countries remain conspicuously silent in so many areas where retaliation from Beijing is virtually assured has really been both disappointing and sort of amazing to watch at the same time.

realusername 8y ago
> It's personally been very eye-opening for me over the past decade to see just how much the size of a country's economy can wielded as club to silence international opposition and how easily the international community goes along with it That's the big shift occurring since the end of WWII. Countries lost power and influence to businesses & companies, every decade it's been more and more visible until the situation of today.
- Sniffnoy 8y ago
  But it's not Chinese companies that go around making these threats -- it's the Chinese government with their ability to control those companies or cut off access to them. Same old monopoly on violence that's doing this, just wielded against your trading partners rather than you directly.
  - realusername 8y ago
    > But it's not Chinese companies that go around making these threats -- it's the Chinese government with their ability to control those companies or cut off access to them In China, there's not much difference between the big companies and the government anyway.
    - Sniffnoy 8y ago
      The point is that refusing to trade with someone because they said something you don't like is not a good way to make money, and as such, one way or another, companies wouldn't take such measures were it not for the government's influence, regardless of the precise means of operation of that influence. If it were like you say, we'd see the influence of the companies undoing such government policies so that they can be unrestricted in their trade and make more money. That's not what we see. (Or likely we see it in other areas, but it's clear which way the influence runs in this one.)
yourbandsucks 8y ago
Just the last decade? Are you American?
profalseidol 8y ago
Try /r/LateStageCapitalism/
leoc 8y ago
Just as with decisions in China, nothing is truly inevitable here either.
analyst74 8y ago
International politics has always been like this though, powerful countries get to do what they want. Maybe the main reason it's eye-opening for you is because now it's done by a government you do not approve of?
ionised 8y ago
> It's personally been very eye-opening for me over the past decade to see just how much the size of a country's economy can wielded as club to silence international opposition and how easily the international community goes along with it. Just the last decade? The United States has been doing this to other countries for the last century or more. The British Empire did it for hunreds of years before that.

realusername 8y ago

> It's personally been very eye-opening for me over the past decade to see just how much the size of a country's economy can wielded as club to silence international opposition and how easily the international community goes along with it That's the big shift occurring since the end of WWII. Countries lost power and influence to businesses & companies, every decade it's been more and more visible until the situation of today.

Sniffnoy 8y ago
But it's not Chinese companies that go around making these threats -- it's the Chinese government with their ability to control those companies or cut off access to them. Same old monopoly on violence that's doing this, just wielded against your trading partners rather than you directly.
- realusername 8y ago
  > But it's not Chinese companies that go around making these threats -- it's the Chinese government with their ability to control those companies or cut off access to them In China, there's not much difference between the big companies and the government anyway.
  - Sniffnoy 8y ago
    The point is that refusing to trade with someone because they said something you don't like is not a good way to make money, and as such, one way or another, companies wouldn't take such measures were it not for the government's influence, regardless of the precise means of operation of that influence. If it were like you say, we'd see the influence of the companies undoing such government policies so that they can be unrestricted in their trade and make more money. That's not what we see. (Or likely we see it in other areas, but it's clear which way the influence runs in this one.)

yourbandsucks 8y ago

Just the last decade? Are you American?

profalseidol 8y ago

Try /r/LateStageCapitalism/

leoc 8y ago

Just as with decisions in China, nothing is truly inevitable here either.

analyst74 8y ago

International politics has always been like this though, powerful countries get to do what they want. Maybe the main reason it's eye-opening for you is because now it's done by a government you do not approve of?

ionised 8y ago

> It's personally been very eye-opening for me over the past decade to see just how much the size of a country's economy can wielded as club to silence international opposition and how easily the international community goes along with it. Just the last decade? The United States has been doing this to other countries for the last century or more. The British Empire did it for hunreds of years before that.