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Absolutely - I made a comment a few years ago around the Model S pricing when they compared it to a E or S class Mercedes. The base price of a given vehicle is

by _s 8y ago

Absolutely - I made a comment a few years ago around the Model S pricing when they compared it to a E or S class Mercedes. The base price of a given vehicle is $35k, and then I'd spend either $1500/yr on fuel and maintenance o, or $500/yr on fuel and maintenance if it's - for example - electric, on top the of the base price. Spending $1000 less per year does not magically mean the car is now $34k. If anything, the price has gone from $36.5k to $35.5k for that first year. I don't even understand the mental gymnastics you have to do, or how ignorant you have to be to not understand that. Unless I'm taking crazy pills? Someone please correct my logic otherwise.

TheSmiddy 8y ago
buying a $35,000 Tesla has the equivalent cost of ownership of buying a $26,950 ICE car. It's not a massive amount of mental gymnastics. I definitely don't agree with Teslas practices of framing it that way, I'd rather they just show cost of ownership comparisons across a variety of cars. Especially since they can't even meet the demand they currently have, why resort to shady practices?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- tfehring 8y ago
  > buying a $35,000 Tesla has the equivalent cost of ownership of buying a $26,950 ICE car. It's not a massive amount of mental gymnastics. But only if you arbitrarily include the difference in fuel costs, which makes Tesla look cheaper, and exclude the differences in insurance and maintenance costs, which make Tesla look more expensive.
  - thebluehawk 8y ago
    My experience is that insurance is the same and maintenance is cheaper with an electric vehicle.
    - tfehring 8y ago
      I haven't owned an EV, so it sounds like you would know better than I would. It was my understanding that (1) liability coverage is cheaper for Teslas but comp/collision is substantially more expensive due to the high cost of replacement parts, and (2) maintenance/repairs for Teslas are infrequent but any repairs involving the battery are extremely costly.
    - phamilton 8y ago
      But insurance is cheaper for a $26k car than a $35k car.
  - Pfhreak 8y ago
    The maintenance costs definitely are cheaper than an ICE, in my experience. (Insurance and taxes, however, have been higher.)
  - nickik 8y ago
    Those things are all analyzed in these overall ownership models. That's the whole point the those things. And of course you have to include full cost, ICE can not run without it, and most people want to drive their car. Of course these are avg numbers and you have to do it with your personal driving numbers and how long you want to keep the car to get a more detailed picture of the cost. However overall, pretty much all EV have a significant large part of up front cost to ownership cost so its totally fair to point that out. That said, Tesla is of course a company and they are pressing this point to aggressive and that is irritating to many of us. The overall point they are making however, is backed up by the data.
    - saberience 8y ago
      Please note that Tesla doesn’t include any estimates of depreciation for their cars. If this was intended to be an accurate cost of ownership they should include that too. However, they don’t, especially for model 3, because they know it would make them look bad.
  - 7e 8y ago
    Further, Tesla does not include the costs of a home charger, nor the cost of the yearly EV tax imposed by 17 states.
    - solean 8y ago
      The charger comes with the car
- Avshalom 8y ago
  Except I can't buy a Tesla for 26,950. So calling that the price is a lie. No amount of gas I don't buy in the future is going to get me out the door with a Tesla today.
- GhostVII 8y ago
  Except you are probably cross shopping with a Chevy volt (which also has $0 gas cost). You could use the same logic to justify lowering the listed price of a Prius because it uses less gas than an SUV.
Pharmakon 8y ago
People like to abuse and overuse the cliche about “drinking the Kool-Aid,” but this right here is a great example of when it is warranted. This feeling you’re having is the result of not having taken “crazy pills” in the first place; it’s the feeling of looking at a cult from the outside. To be clear, I like the Model S and appreciate what Tesla has done to popularize EVs in some circles, but that’s not a ticket to be bonkers. Shady practices, obscene waits, hellish repair schedules, broken promises and a CEO who just can’t shut his mouth to save his life... it is very weird.
- sixQuarks 8y ago
  I'm in the "cult" and still have those "feelings" you refer to. This pricing needs to go. It does not line up with Tesla's overall brand and image.
  - sokoloff 8y ago
    For many people (myself included), misleading communications practices seem to line up perfectly with Tesla's and Musk's overall image. I love what they've accomplished in the field; the cars are genuinely very good; the exaggerations and outright lies are unnecessary and therefore infuriating to watch...
gowld 8y ago
The offical website Model S price built in a deduction for an estimate of billable income you could make by working instead of waiting next to your car while you fill the gas tank.
- webXL 8y ago
  Time is money. This is why most companies pay out unused vacation time when your employment ends.

by _s 8y ago

TheSmiddy 8y ago

buying a $35,000 Tesla has the equivalent cost of ownership of buying a $26,950 ICE car. It's not a massive amount of mental gymnastics. I definitely don't agree with Teslas practices of framing it that way, I'd rather they just show cost of ownership comparisons across a variety of cars. Especially since they can't even meet the demand they currently have, why resort to shady practices?

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
tfehring 8y ago
> buying a $35,000 Tesla has the equivalent cost of ownership of buying a $26,950 ICE car. It's not a massive amount of mental gymnastics. But only if you arbitrarily include the difference in fuel costs, which makes Tesla look cheaper, and exclude the differences in insurance and maintenance costs, which make Tesla look more expensive.
- thebluehawk 8y ago
  My experience is that insurance is the same and maintenance is cheaper with an electric vehicle.
  - tfehring 8y ago
    I haven't owned an EV, so it sounds like you would know better than I would. It was my understanding that (1) liability coverage is cheaper for Teslas but comp/collision is substantially more expensive due to the high cost of replacement parts, and (2) maintenance/repairs for Teslas are infrequent but any repairs involving the battery are extremely costly.
  - phamilton 8y ago
    But insurance is cheaper for a $26k car than a $35k car.
- Pfhreak 8y ago
  The maintenance costs definitely are cheaper than an ICE, in my experience. (Insurance and taxes, however, have been higher.)
- nickik 8y ago
  Those things are all analyzed in these overall ownership models. That's the whole point the those things. And of course you have to include full cost, ICE can not run without it, and most people want to drive their car. Of course these are avg numbers and you have to do it with your personal driving numbers and how long you want to keep the car to get a more detailed picture of the cost. However overall, pretty much all EV have a significant large part of up front cost to ownership cost so its totally fair to point that out. That said, Tesla is of course a company and they are pressing this point to aggressive and that is irritating to many of us. The overall point they are making however, is backed up by the data.
  - saberience 8y ago
    Please note that Tesla doesn’t include any estimates of depreciation for their cars. If this was intended to be an accurate cost of ownership they should include that too. However, they don’t, especially for model 3, because they know it would make them look bad.
- 7e 8y ago
  Further, Tesla does not include the costs of a home charger, nor the cost of the yearly EV tax imposed by 17 states.
  - solean 8y ago
    The charger comes with the car
Avshalom 8y ago
Except I can't buy a Tesla for 26,950. So calling that the price is a lie. No amount of gas I don't buy in the future is going to get me out the door with a Tesla today.
GhostVII 8y ago
Except you are probably cross shopping with a Chevy volt (which also has $0 gas cost). You could use the same logic to justify lowering the listed price of a Prius because it uses less gas than an SUV.

Pharmakon 8y ago

People like to abuse and overuse the cliche about “drinking the Kool-Aid,” but this right here is a great example of when it is warranted. This feeling you’re having is the result of not having taken “crazy pills” in the first place; it’s the feeling of looking at a cult from the outside. To be clear, I like the Model S and appreciate what Tesla has done to popularize EVs in some circles, but that’s not a ticket to be bonkers. Shady practices, obscene waits, hellish repair schedules, broken promises and a CEO who just can’t shut his mouth to save his life... it is very weird.

sixQuarks 8y ago
I'm in the "cult" and still have those "feelings" you refer to. This pricing needs to go. It does not line up with Tesla's overall brand and image.
- sokoloff 8y ago
  For many people (myself included), misleading communications practices seem to line up perfectly with Tesla's and Musk's overall image. I love what they've accomplished in the field; the cars are genuinely very good; the exaggerations and outright lies are unnecessary and therefore infuriating to watch...

gowld 8y ago

The offical website Model S price built in a deduction for an estimate of billable income you could make by working instead of waiting next to your car while you fill the gas tank.

webXL 8y ago
Time is money. This is why most companies pay out unused vacation time when your employment ends.