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Apple moves to store iCloud keys in China, raising human rights fears
- schappim 8y agoMy first (knee jerk) thought is “I guess this is what happens when you’re under pressure to perform better in China”; but I think there is more to the story than we know. I would be surprised Apple if caved on this without having a mitigation strategy in place.
- coolspot 8y agoI am afraid any attempts to implement mitigations against Chinese law would result in outlawing these mitigations. It is not like US at all.
- macdaknife 8y agoTrue statement. Calling a murderous, commie regime’s edicts is an affront to law, not law. These are the edicts of a dictatorship. Sad that apple flushed their morals down the crapper in order to make a buck. I will consider this in my next phone spend.
- curt15 8y agoThis. Friends from China tell me that China is less "rule of law" than "rule of people".
- eridius 8y agoThe "more to the story" is that this is required by Chinese law, as explained by the article: > In a statement, Apple said it had to comply with recently introduced Chinese laws that require cloud services offered to Chinese citizens be operated by Chinese companies and that the data be stored in China. It said that while the company’s values don’t change in different parts of the world, it is subject to each country’s laws.
- zeroname 8y agoReplace the word "China" with "Sweden" and it starts sounding like reasonable policy.
- smsm42 8y agoNo it does not. Sweden probably is less likely to horribly abuse the data to incarcerate and execute citizens for disagreeing with the government, but the goal of the policy would be the same - to make all data about the person subject to the state's control. Swedish government might not be abusing this control right now, but nobody can guarantee it won't in 15 years.
- zeroname 8y ago> ...the goal of the policy would be the same - to make all data about the person subject to the state's control. That's one-sided thinking. The goal may well be to make the data not subject to the (lack of) control of a foreign state, namely the United States in this case, but any foreign state in the general case. In fact the EU already mandates similar restrictions for data of EU citizens and special provisions for EU-US data transfers: https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/data-transfers-outside-eu/eu-us-data-transfers_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/data...
- smsm42 8y ago> That's one-sided thinking. Yes, one side I am interested in is my side. If I want to store my data in a different jurisdiction, because it is currently less interested in abusing my rights than the one my body physically resides in, I should have that option. > In fact the EU already mandates similar restrictions for data of EU citizens That's exactly my point. EU government might be currently less interested in explicit human rights violations than Chinese government, but their pattern of behavior is the same - "we own everything about our subjects, and won't let anybody - including subjects themselves - do anything to escape our control".
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- vezycash 8y agoIf it increases the share price, sales, maximizes shareholder value, without backlash in home market, it's okay. /s
- jjulius 8y agoHeadline is somewhat misleading - this applies to Chinese iCloud accounts, not all iCloud accounts.
- noja 8y agoThe headline is not misleading at all, they are doing exactly what I expected
- max76 8y agoThe headline is ambiguous.
- Shebanator 8y agoAmbiguous != misleading - the latter implies intent
- klodolph 8y agoThat’s a common connotation, sure. But it’s not part of its meaning, I frequently see the word “misleading” used without any notion of intent.
- spectramax 8y agoNo, it doesn’t. Ambiguous and Misleading is an effect or consequence of a statement. Neither indicate any intent behind the statement. In other words, a statement can be misleading despite of benevolent intention.
- zaphirplane 8y ago> The headline is not misleading at all, they are doing exactly what I expected “They” being the submitter, it’s click bait, no date and misleading headline
- mlindner 8y agoAnd it doesn't move anything you don't store on iCloud. So don't store things on iCloud and there's nothing they can access. For example iMessage messages aren't on iCloud in clear text unless you enable that feature.
- mbrumlow 8y ago> they fear the authorities authorities <- its their country not yours not ours. Do bad things happen there? Yeah probably, but so do bad things happen in whatever country people are reading this post from. Clearly countries have come about because people have different ways of thinking of how things should or should not be done. Because of this I always find it weird when people from one country are very concerned about another countries citizens. We(you) anybody can't be the police of the world. If you want to operate in another country then you should probably follow their local laws. Any attempt to do so will probably result in the hero (those who wish to police) to turn in to a tyrant much worse than that we have today.
- keiferski 8y ago> I always find it weird when people from one country are very concerned about another countries citizens. I find it strange when people from one country aren’t concerned with other countries’ citizens. That may or may not justify “intervention”, but we’re all human beings on the same planet here.
- mbrumlow 8y agoWell put, and I do long for a day we are all simply just "human". But there is enough bad in this world that the only sane way to combat it is based of locality. Just as I am not concerned so much with what is happening in a home one street over, I am also not concerned about neighboring cities, states and then finally countries. Each of these groups surly has their own set of problems to solve before chasing after the problems of the next. So I chose to start with my self first, then my family and move out from there.
- michaelmrose 8y agoI'm very tempted towards being snarky. This also is a logical fallacy. You can work on your families problems and opt not to support companies caving to evil dictatorships as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma Based on this fallacy we should never ever address any problem larger than what to have for dinner tonight because piddling issues are ever present.
- intopieces 8y agoWill the user experience be degraded if the user sets their region to Hong Kong or Macau?
- millstone 8y agoThis is from a year ago, headline should say 2018
- KangLi 8y agoOne more reason to dump Apple.
- mvid 8y agoAnd go to who?
- smsm42 8y agoAbout 1000 other phone models not manufactured by Apple? Is it some kind of trick question that assumes Apple holds monopoly in the business of mobile/cloud and we're not aware of it? Or there's some other point here?
- eridius 8y agoEverybody who operates cloud services in China is subject to these same laws. If you dump Apple over this, every other choice you have is guaranteed to be no better (and likely a hell of a lot worse) on the privacy front.
- smsm42 8y agoMaybe the point is to choose provider that operates cloud services outside of China?
- mvid 8y agoIf all that matters is the phone model, then Apple is just as good since you don't need to use iCloud. If you are going to use cloud services, do you really think Google/Android is going to be better from a privacy perspective?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- mikeyzhe 8y agoHowever other brands in China also obey the same law, that means you have to choose some brands that never have business in China, which excludes (Samsung, LG, Moto, ....)
- zeroname 8y agoThe question is, by pulling out of China as some sort of business virtue signal, is the outcome an improvement? China doesn't need Apple and not complying with China without pulling out isn't an option. Let's say some major Chinese company pulled out of the U.S. market because of the Iraq War, would the reaction of U.S. citizens, even those opposing the war, be positive? Wouldn't politicians use it as an instrument? Make no mistake, scary stuff is going on in China, but the solution has to come from within China. In fact, by explicitly supporting the opposition in China, any accusation of "evil foreign influence" is substantiated.
- ksec 8y agoI wish for an AirPort iOS Time Capsule. One with a 2.5" 1TB HDD, with a Sub $199 pricing. For $3 Dollar a month, you get 200GB iCloud, Most people don't need that, As your iOS, Apps, Music, doesn't need to be backed up. Those takes up in between 15GB+. So if you have an 64GB iPhone, that chances are 55GB iCloud ( 50 + 5GB Free ) is enough. That is $0.99 / month, $12 a Year, $24 for two years. Surely a $199 iOS Time Capsule makes a much better business case than $12 a year backup plan? Those who don't want their government spying on them, could have use this instead.
- neop1x 8y agoThere is no cloud but other people's computers. Don't store personal data on other people's computers.