5 ms·

>> [...] solves the same problems without a runtime, and about 3 times the performance. I think you should look more into Ada. The only "runtime" is for the ex

>> [...] solves the same problems without a runtime, and about 3 times the performance. I think you should look more into Ada. The only "runtime" is for the exception handling and bounds checking, both of which can be turned off if needed. And I don't know where you got that "3 times" figure from? Do you have an example you are referring to?

galangalalgol 8y ago
I knew you could turn off the runtime but not about the formal verification lint tools that make it safe to do so. My reference for performance is the benchmark game. If you or someone else can mod those programs to beat rust I'd be thrilled. I like Ada.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  Many planes, trains, rockets and medical devices run on Ada. There is more to commercial compilers than winning the benchmarks game.
  - Narishma 8y ago
    Those things don't need to be particularly fast. What they need is consistent and predictable performance and resource usage.
    - galangalalgol 8y ago
      Planes trains and rockets have more sensors than ever and speed is very important.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - galangalalgol 8y ago
    Most of my experience is embedded c++ but I have written ada rust and a fair bit of jovial73. Rust is a perfect fit for those same domains. Most o the things that ran Ada in the US have now switched to c++. Do178b certified safety critical c++ is a horrible thing to develop. I'm hoping rust comes in to fix that.
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Sure, safe system programming languages should be seen as allies to the common goal of improving the quality of our IT stacks.
  - igouy 8y ago
    For sure. The benchmarks game is just an easily available source of examples. Which, for instance, may show an Ada program with much the same measured time as a Rust program — https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/performance/spectralnorm.html https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/...
- johnisgood 8y ago
  I believe the performance differences on The Computer Language Benchmarks Game is largely due to the implementations themselves. For one, pidigits have been translated from Pascal to Ada using p2ada. I do not think that this is a fair comparison at all.
  - galangalalgol 8y ago
    I agree on that one, I'm rusty at ada, bad pun, but someone should profile and fix it. The n body one is half the speed of rust and it is hand tweaked using simd instructions. I wouldn't mind at all goin back to Ada. Most of the people that switched to c++ did so in order to have a larger hiring pool or to seem more modern. Some of them are switching to safety critical Java now for the same reasons. I suspect safety critical python is on the horizon. If airliners have to start worrying about python 2/3 headaches I'll know it is time to retire.
    - johnisgood 8y ago
      Yeah, I wish we had Ada experts fixing and optimizing them. That would be neat! It matters a lot to people, and Rust versions have been optimized to oblivion by many people. It should be done with Ada, too, to have a fair comparison. :) And yeah, it is a valid and very serious issue. If we had more Ada programmers, we would not have to sit in trains or airplanes "powered" by C++, haha.
    - igouy 8y ago
      Even being rusty at Ada, you may be able to fix this regex program: https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/program/regexredux-gnat-6.html#log https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/... https://salsa.debian.org/benchmarksgame-team/benchmarksgame/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md https://salsa.debian.org/benchmarksgame-team/benchmarksgame/...
  - igouy 8y ago
    The other Ada pidigits program currently fails because output checking was made more restrictive: https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/program/pidigits-gnat-2.html#log https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/... It would be great if you would contribute a program that fixes this trivial problem: https://salsa.debian.org/benchmarksgame-team/benchmarksgame/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md https://salsa.debian.org/benchmarksgame-team/benchmarksgame/...

galangalalgol 8y ago

I knew you could turn off the runtime but not about the formal verification lint tools that make it safe to do so. My reference for performance is the benchmark game. If you or someone else can mod those programs to beat rust I'd be thrilled. I like Ada.

pjmlp 8y ago
Many planes, trains, rockets and medical devices run on Ada. There is more to commercial compilers than winning the benchmarks game.
- Narishma 8y ago
  Those things don't need to be particularly fast. What they need is consistent and predictable performance and resource usage.
  - galangalalgol 8y ago
    Planes trains and rockets have more sensors than ever and speed is very important.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- galangalalgol 8y ago
  Most of my experience is embedded c++ but I have written ada rust and a fair bit of jovial73. Rust is a perfect fit for those same domains. Most o the things that ran Ada in the US have now switched to c++. Do178b certified safety critical c++ is a horrible thing to develop. I'm hoping rust comes in to fix that.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Sure, safe system programming languages should be seen as allies to the common goal of improving the quality of our IT stacks.
- igouy 8y ago
  For sure. The benchmarks game is just an easily available source of examples. Which, for instance, may show an Ada program with much the same measured time as a Rust program — https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/performance/spectralnorm.html https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/...
johnisgood 8y ago
I believe the performance differences on The Computer Language Benchmarks Game is largely due to the implementations themselves. For one, pidigits have been translated from Pascal to Ada using p2ada. I do not think that this is a fair comparison at all.
- galangalalgol 8y ago
  I agree on that one, I'm rusty at ada, bad pun, but someone should profile and fix it. The n body one is half the speed of rust and it is hand tweaked using simd instructions. I wouldn't mind at all goin back to Ada. Most of the people that switched to c++ did so in order to have a larger hiring pool or to seem more modern. Some of them are switching to safety critical Java now for the same reasons. I suspect safety critical python is on the horizon. If airliners have to start worrying about python 2/3 headaches I'll know it is time to retire.
  - johnisgood 8y ago
    Yeah, I wish we had Ada experts fixing and optimizing them. That would be neat! It matters a lot to people, and Rust versions have been optimized to oblivion by many people. It should be done with Ada, too, to have a fair comparison. :) And yeah, it is a valid and very serious issue. If we had more Ada programmers, we would not have to sit in trains or airplanes "powered" by C++, haha.
  - igouy 8y ago
    Even being rusty at Ada, you may be able to fix this regex program: https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/program/regexredux-gnat-6.html#log https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/... https://salsa.debian.org/benchmarksgame-team/benchmarksgame/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md https://salsa.debian.org/benchmarksgame-team/benchmarksgame/...
- igouy 8y ago
  The other Ada pidigits program currently fails because output checking was made more restrictive: https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/program/pidigits-gnat-2.html#log https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/... It would be great if you would contribute a program that fixes this trivial problem: https://salsa.debian.org/benchmarksgame-team/benchmarksgame/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md https://salsa.debian.org/benchmarksgame-team/benchmarksgame/...