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This is a good illustration of how differently a UI can be designed for different groups of users, who have different needs. Your old train ticket machines wer

by magduf 8y ago

This is a good illustration of how differently a UI can be designed for different groups of users, who have different needs. Your old train ticket machines were apparently great for locals who were familiar with them, and had memorized information like the zone code, but they were surely horrible for anyone else. By contrast, on my last trip to Germany, the Deutsche Bahn ticket machines weren't the fastest things in the world to use, but for tourists from other countries, they worked pretty well, since they had dozens of different languages you could choose to use the machine in, and had the ability to look up destinations, which is surely a lot easier than trying to figure out some arcade zone code. In short, an interface that's highly efficient for an extremely experienced user probably isn't going to work well for someone who's never used the system before, and vice-versa. For a train ticket machine, it seems to me you want something that's easy for newcomers; you can't assume everyone is a regular user of the system. However, a lot of these comments are talking about things like warehouse inventory systems; these are things that only a relatively small number of employees will be using, and they're going to be experts or working towards that, and efficiency is the goal, not newbie-friendliness.

CharlesColeman 8y ago
> In short, an interface that's highly efficient for an extremely experienced user probably isn't going to work well for someone who's never used the system before, and vice-versa. For a train ticket machine, it seems to me you want something that's easy for newcomers; you can't assume everyone is a regular user of the system. It's not an either/or. You need to support both sets of users well. Sure, if 90% if interactions are going to be by newbie users, design the system for them. But for something like a train ticket system, maybe 50% of users may be newbie visitors, but only 10% of interactions are by them. It doesn't seem like the right call to cater to newbies if it means making the remaining 90% of non-newbie interactions noticeably worse.
- magduf 8y ago
  Actually, it might. If half the users can't use your highly-efficient system and then have to go bother your workers to figure out how to buy a ticket, that's probably worse than making things slightly easier for your regular visitors.
  - CharlesColeman 8y ago
    > Actually, it might. If half the users can't use your highly-efficient system and then have to go bother your workers to figure out how to buy a ticket, That's the kind of user-hostile decision-making that annoys and infuriates people. It's basically saying it's better to bother a hundred other people than have one person bother you. In my comment I said that you need to support both sets of public transit users well, and that it's not either/or. In many cases it's a mistake to make the dumbed-down newbie interface the only interface, because that could make your system noticeably worse for most users. Personally, in cases like this, I think some kind of touch-screen guide to the efficient expert interface is probably the right balance. Make it easier for newbies to scrape by (because that's the best they'll ever be able to do), but give frequent users a path a better experience rather than holding them back. > that's probably worse than making things slightly easier for your regular visitors. I think we're talking about residents, not visitors, in this case.
    - magduf 8y ago
      No, I agree: ideally your UI will support both classes of users. Unfortunately, it usually seems we can only have one or the other, so I'd argue that for train tickets you want to lean towards supporting newbies more. For warehouse inventory, I'd argue that newbies should be utterly disregarded. >That's the kind of user-hostile decision-making that annoys and infuriates people. It's basically saying it's better to bother a hundred other people than have one person bother you. I don't understand this comment. If someone wants to buy a train ticket and the system doesn't even support their language, and they can't understand it, literally the only option they have is to seek help. I don't have to be able to read German to use the Deutsche Bahn train-ticket systems; they have options for English, French, Spanish, and even many other lesser-used languages like Polish, Czech, etc. If your city has a lot of international visitors, you either need to have a system that they can use easier (by supporting their language), or you need to hire a bunch of multi-lingual agents to work full-time at all the stations, or have some kind of translating service available for your employees to call to help these people. Guess which one is cheaper?
      - 8y ago
tetha 8y ago
Interestingly enough - with your example - the ticket machines of the german bahn are quite efficient if you know what you need, making their interface even better. For example, there are regional tickets that allow you to take just about all the regional trains for a day with a group of people. You can find this ticket if you poke in your destination (the default prompt), select it, and then it gives you the option to use this or other types of tickets. Or you go ahead and select "all tickets", type NDS, skip options and pay. Takes less than a minute.

by magduf 8y ago

CharlesColeman 8y ago

> In short, an interface that's highly efficient for an extremely experienced user probably isn't going to work well for someone who's never used the system before, and vice-versa. For a train ticket machine, it seems to me you want something that's easy for newcomers; you can't assume everyone is a regular user of the system. It's not an either/or. You need to support both sets of users well. Sure, if 90% if interactions are going to be by newbie users, design the system for them. But for something like a train ticket system, maybe 50% of users may be newbie visitors, but only 10% of interactions are by them. It doesn't seem like the right call to cater to newbies if it means making the remaining 90% of non-newbie interactions noticeably worse.

magduf 8y ago
Actually, it might. If half the users can't use your highly-efficient system and then have to go bother your workers to figure out how to buy a ticket, that's probably worse than making things slightly easier for your regular visitors.
- CharlesColeman 8y ago
  > Actually, it might. If half the users can't use your highly-efficient system and then have to go bother your workers to figure out how to buy a ticket, That's the kind of user-hostile decision-making that annoys and infuriates people. It's basically saying it's better to bother a hundred other people than have one person bother you. In my comment I said that you need to support both sets of public transit users well, and that it's not either/or. In many cases it's a mistake to make the dumbed-down newbie interface the only interface, because that could make your system noticeably worse for most users. Personally, in cases like this, I think some kind of touch-screen guide to the efficient expert interface is probably the right balance. Make it easier for newbies to scrape by (because that's the best they'll ever be able to do), but give frequent users a path a better experience rather than holding them back. > that's probably worse than making things slightly easier for your regular visitors. I think we're talking about residents, not visitors, in this case.
  - magduf 8y ago
    No, I agree: ideally your UI will support both classes of users. Unfortunately, it usually seems we can only have one or the other, so I'd argue that for train tickets you want to lean towards supporting newbies more. For warehouse inventory, I'd argue that newbies should be utterly disregarded. >That's the kind of user-hostile decision-making that annoys and infuriates people. It's basically saying it's better to bother a hundred other people than have one person bother you. I don't understand this comment. If someone wants to buy a train ticket and the system doesn't even support their language, and they can't understand it, literally the only option they have is to seek help. I don't have to be able to read German to use the Deutsche Bahn train-ticket systems; they have options for English, French, Spanish, and even many other lesser-used languages like Polish, Czech, etc. If your city has a lot of international visitors, you either need to have a system that they can use easier (by supporting their language), or you need to hire a bunch of multi-lingual agents to work full-time at all the stations, or have some kind of translating service available for your employees to call to help these people. Guess which one is cheaper?
    - 8y ago

tetha 8y ago

Interestingly enough - with your example - the ticket machines of the german bahn are quite efficient if you know what you need, making their interface even better. For example, there are regional tickets that allow you to take just about all the regional trains for a day with a group of people. You can find this ticket if you poke in your destination (the default prompt), select it, and then it gives you the option to use this or other types of tickets. Or you go ahead and select "all tickets", type NDS, skip options and pay. Takes less than a minute.