5 ms·

completely changing the interface has its own problems in my opinion. People that have years of experience using the older interface are going to have a tough

by tmaly 8y ago

completely changing the interface has its own problems in my opinion. People that have years of experience using the older interface are going to have a tough time making the transition. training is usually lacking, and a newer UI does not guarantee that more mistakes will not be made in the learning curve.

Cthulhu_ 8y ago
One thing I've often heard that the old software is oftentimes DOS / ncurses style keyboard-driven UI, the new is a Windows forms app or webapp - often completely incompatible with the existing flows, lacking any keyboard interaction, and even with optimization and training not as fast or as fast to operate as the old application.
- sixdimensional 8y ago
  Green screen!!!
  - coldacid 8y ago
    Green screens need to make a comeback.
    - inetknght 8y ago
      I appreciate the concept of a green screen, but I'd rather have an 80x24 with multi-color than an 80x24 with mono-color. 8-bit color is perfectly acceptable to me; I don't need a lot of color, just enough to use to differentiate categories of data.
  - hermitdev 8y ago
    How about a green screen with burn-in?
- apostacy 8y ago
  If most UX designers took the time to listen and understand people's needs, then this wouldn't be such an issue. But in my experience, there is a culture of hubris in the UX community. I doubt most UX designers have ever even used a curses based interface. They are just disgusted by seeing so much monospace text, and are compelled to tear it down and replace it with something they are comfortable with (And usually the only thing they know how to use). I had to clean up after some UX monkeys a few years ago, who "upgraded" a warehouse inventory system. The warehouse used 30 year old embedded MSDOS based portable Symbol terminals and a SCO UNIX server in the back end. They also used Wyse terminals in the office for the admin interface and data entry. Everything booted in seconds, and the portable terminal/scanners lasted for days, and never had a problem. They decided to replace it with React Native on Android touch screen terminals (this was a refrigerated food warehouse). The hardware couldn't go even a whole day, and the touchscreens were not at all appropriate. The software was slow and unreliable, and had led to costly mistakes. Speaking to the designer, he seemed far more concerned about how it looked than about adding back essential features. He kept joking about how backward things had been, and how heroic he was for helping these simpletons see the light. His only justification for several things was that it was "trending" and he didn't want his client to be "left behind". They also started by gutting essential features, and adding them back on a rolling basis, when they got around to it. In my opinion, a big part of the problem is the culture of UX. It seems to have amplified the stereotypical arrogance that people sometimes associate with IT people, and combined it with smug fashionistas.
  - jdhn 8y ago
    Sorry that you worked with a bad UX designer. Do you know if they did any sort of user research at all, or did they jump straight to making it look pretty?
    - apostacy 8y ago
      That's the thing, this is what it is almost always like. Anyone who calls themselves a UX designer and is under 25 has just been insufferable. And they just assume that older technology must be inferior, because it is old. They use obsolete as a synonym for old. In the span of a year, I had UX consultants tell me that password masking is obsolete, and that there should be one field for passwords, no wait, two fields but masked again. Decisions are not really based on logic, they are based on fashion trends, and intense fear of not being hip. Maybe in some way this makes sense in the modern app ecosystem, that is possible. But is should be relegated to crummy Listicle apps. But these types of people should be kept well away from any software that does anything important. As for the warehouse I mentioned, Android and React Native are not the right technologies. But maybe this firm didn't want to tell the client that they should go somewhere else.
- bluedino 8y ago
  It's so much faster when you're not using the mouse. Move up to 'Transactions', then 'Customers', then 'Payments', then scroll down to which one you want to see. Or you can do '5, 3, 12, <customer number>' Try changing the work flow of the 60 year old lady in accounts payable who's been using that for the last 25 years, she will never bring you in brownies again. Not to mention no fat web client interacting with a server in the cloud is as fast as interacting with the server in the basement of your own building.
  - southern_cross 8y ago
    And "typeahead", where your fingers can be entering data faster than the computer can respond to it. Folks who are used to this tend to really lose their cool if this feature goes away, and I can't really blame them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typeahead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typeahead
  - scarface74 8y ago
    I did a lot of work with ruggedized Windows Mobile devices for field service workers. After one update, we noticed that data was being entered incorrectly more often than usual and the office workers had to correct it a lot more often. We couldn’t find the issue for the life of us. Eventually, we sent someone down to the shop to see what was happening. We realized that the field workers weren’t waiting for the screen to update and were tabbing through using muscle memory. I had inadvertently switched a field and the tab order around. And then there was the time that a new user was complaining about not being able to see a field but all of the old repairmen didn’t complain. Someone hadn’t actually tested the colors on the screen outside in direct sunlight where everyone was working. The new screen was just like the old one and all of the other repairmen just did it by memory.
    - pizzazzaro 8y ago
      This is the kind of question that is too rarely asked - "how is it used in the field?" Im sure those technicians went through a few new-hires who just c/would not put up with not being able to see what they were inputting. Thank you, kind sir, for fixing what actually broke.
CharlesColeman 8y ago
> People that have years of experience using the older interface are going to have a tough time making the transition. And the effort spent making the transition may not be worth the reward.

by tmaly 8y ago

Cthulhu_ 8y ago

One thing I've often heard that the old software is oftentimes DOS / ncurses style keyboard-driven UI, the new is a Windows forms app or webapp - often completely incompatible with the existing flows, lacking any keyboard interaction, and even with optimization and training not as fast or as fast to operate as the old application.

sixdimensional 8y ago
Green screen!!!
- coldacid 8y ago
  Green screens need to make a comeback.
  - inetknght 8y ago
    I appreciate the concept of a green screen, but I'd rather have an 80x24 with multi-color than an 80x24 with mono-color. 8-bit color is perfectly acceptable to me; I don't need a lot of color, just enough to use to differentiate categories of data.
- hermitdev 8y ago
  How about a green screen with burn-in?
apostacy 8y ago
If most UX designers took the time to listen and understand people's needs, then this wouldn't be such an issue. But in my experience, there is a culture of hubris in the UX community. I doubt most UX designers have ever even used a curses based interface. They are just disgusted by seeing so much monospace text, and are compelled to tear it down and replace it with something they are comfortable with (And usually the only thing they know how to use). I had to clean up after some UX monkeys a few years ago, who "upgraded" a warehouse inventory system. The warehouse used 30 year old embedded MSDOS based portable Symbol terminals and a SCO UNIX server in the back end. They also used Wyse terminals in the office for the admin interface and data entry. Everything booted in seconds, and the portable terminal/scanners lasted for days, and never had a problem. They decided to replace it with React Native on Android touch screen terminals (this was a refrigerated food warehouse). The hardware couldn't go even a whole day, and the touchscreens were not at all appropriate. The software was slow and unreliable, and had led to costly mistakes. Speaking to the designer, he seemed far more concerned about how it looked than about adding back essential features. He kept joking about how backward things had been, and how heroic he was for helping these simpletons see the light. His only justification for several things was that it was "trending" and he didn't want his client to be "left behind". They also started by gutting essential features, and adding them back on a rolling basis, when they got around to it. In my opinion, a big part of the problem is the culture of UX. It seems to have amplified the stereotypical arrogance that people sometimes associate with IT people, and combined it with smug fashionistas.
- jdhn 8y ago
  Sorry that you worked with a bad UX designer. Do you know if they did any sort of user research at all, or did they jump straight to making it look pretty?
  - apostacy 8y ago
    That's the thing, this is what it is almost always like. Anyone who calls themselves a UX designer and is under 25 has just been insufferable. And they just assume that older technology must be inferior, because it is old. They use obsolete as a synonym for old. In the span of a year, I had UX consultants tell me that password masking is obsolete, and that there should be one field for passwords, no wait, two fields but masked again. Decisions are not really based on logic, they are based on fashion trends, and intense fear of not being hip. Maybe in some way this makes sense in the modern app ecosystem, that is possible. But is should be relegated to crummy Listicle apps. But these types of people should be kept well away from any software that does anything important. As for the warehouse I mentioned, Android and React Native are not the right technologies. But maybe this firm didn't want to tell the client that they should go somewhere else.
bluedino 8y ago
It's so much faster when you're not using the mouse. Move up to 'Transactions', then 'Customers', then 'Payments', then scroll down to which one you want to see. Or you can do '5, 3, 12, <customer number>' Try changing the work flow of the 60 year old lady in accounts payable who's been using that for the last 25 years, she will never bring you in brownies again. Not to mention no fat web client interacting with a server in the cloud is as fast as interacting with the server in the basement of your own building.
- southern_cross 8y ago
  And "typeahead", where your fingers can be entering data faster than the computer can respond to it. Folks who are used to this tend to really lose their cool if this feature goes away, and I can't really blame them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typeahead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typeahead
- scarface74 8y ago
  I did a lot of work with ruggedized Windows Mobile devices for field service workers. After one update, we noticed that data was being entered incorrectly more often than usual and the office workers had to correct it a lot more often. We couldn’t find the issue for the life of us. Eventually, we sent someone down to the shop to see what was happening. We realized that the field workers weren’t waiting for the screen to update and were tabbing through using muscle memory. I had inadvertently switched a field and the tab order around. And then there was the time that a new user was complaining about not being able to see a field but all of the old repairmen didn’t complain. Someone hadn’t actually tested the colors on the screen outside in direct sunlight where everyone was working. The new screen was just like the old one and all of the other repairmen just did it by memory.
  - pizzazzaro 8y ago
    This is the kind of question that is too rarely asked - "how is it used in the field?" Im sure those technicians went through a few new-hires who just c/would not put up with not being able to see what they were inputting. Thank you, kind sir, for fixing what actually broke.

CharlesColeman 8y ago

> People that have years of experience using the older interface are going to have a tough time making the transition. And the effort spent making the transition may not be worth the reward.