6 ms·

Im not sure that I think software is always bad just because its old. I recall working as a technician years ago we used text user interface ticket system from

Im not sure that I think software is always bad just because its old. I recall working as a technician years ago we used text user interface ticket system from the early 90s. While it wasnt the prettiest system it did its job and one could navigate it quickly once they has commited the keystrokes to muscle memory. We thought about replacing it with more modern software but after evaluating a few of the options found none of them to be particularly compelling. If anything, we appreciated what our “old” system could do even more.

brobdingnagians 8y ago
I'm constantly and pleasantly surprised by how nice and feature-ful text utilities are. First time I used htop, I was much happier than most of the GUI task managers I had used. It seems like having a simple user interface helps the designers focus more on having it actually do more of the useful things than on how many pixels to put on that margin...
- rayiner 8y ago
  You can see this first hand in almost every single Microsoft program that’s undergone a Win32 to Metro/UWP transition. The new versions can’t do anything.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    So true. It’s hard to believe that their new control panels since Win 8 still lack features of the old ones.
  - kalleboo 8y ago
    See also: any mobile anything. Many times a week do I have to switch to the desktop site to get things done since it wouldn't fit into the clean mobile design.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
    And they do all that nothing so much slower than the old ones. Everyone involved with that project should be ashamed.
ojr 8y ago
working on old software doesn't help your career as much as working on new software from my experience, the job market is too tough as it is, time is more well spent in new technologies, nothing is ever binary but I can strongly agree old software is almost certainly a bad situation to be in but not everyone can explore alternatives because of costs and other factors
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  That’s the perverse nature of our industry. On the one hand you are told to provide business value but if the most value comes from keeping old tech you are pretty much killing your career if you go that route. Nobody will hire a “dinosaur”.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    You might be surprised at the demand for at least some older techs. The demand just won’t be from the “cool” SV companies.
    - magduf 8y ago
      Oh, there's plenty of demand for older techs. The problem is that the pay doesn't match. The demand for people with experience with older tech isn't in the more desirable cities; it's in crappy rust-belt cities, or small towns in the middle of nowhere. And the pay is generally very poor; you'll do much better pay-wise to stick to newer technologies, even if the stuff you're working on is total crap.
      - coldacid 8y ago
        That low-pay job in the Rust Belt probably comes with a better cost-of-living than a $150k job in San Francisco. Don't knock the inlands with coastal elitism thanks.
        noir_lord 8y ago
        Or assume that everyone is in the US either. I work on crappy legacy code (and some nice shiny new stuff or I'd go insane) for what would be considered in SF a crazy salary (but by UK standards and particulary where I live, decent). Quality of life matters as well, Mon-Fri 9-5 with overtime been a once/twice a year thing.
kalleboo 8y ago
Where I lived before their old train ticket machines had an array of buttons[0] where you keyed in the zone code you were going to, adult/child/senior, hit OK, and stuck your magstripe card in. Once you had ridden a couple of times and knew your home zone code, you could buy a ticket in seconds. Of course, for first time users (especially tourists) they were more confusing. They then replaced them with Windows touchscreen-based machines, where just paging through the stations to find your destination by name took as long as it took to buy your ticket with the old machine. Add to that all your typical touchscreen issues (calibration drift etc) I've been to around 30 countries worldwide and never anywhere seen machines as fast as use as the old ones for repeat users. [0] https://images.hdsydsvenskan.se/980x588/KoHYjzCi_hdzfPAF4xY_j0PR9ls.jpg https://images.hdsydsvenskan.se/980x588/KoHYjzCi_hdzfPAF4xY_...
- magduf 8y ago
  This is a good illustration of how differently a UI can be designed for different groups of users, who have different needs. Your old train ticket machines were apparently great for locals who were familiar with them, and had memorized information like the zone code, but they were surely horrible for anyone else. By contrast, on my last trip to Germany, the Deutsche Bahn ticket machines weren't the fastest things in the world to use, but for tourists from other countries, they worked pretty well, since they had dozens of different languages you could choose to use the machine in, and had the ability to look up destinations, which is surely a lot easier than trying to figure out some arcade zone code. In short, an interface that's highly efficient for an extremely experienced user probably isn't going to work well for someone who's never used the system before, and vice-versa. For a train ticket machine, it seems to me you want something that's easy for newcomers; you can't assume everyone is a regular user of the system. However, a lot of these comments are talking about things like warehouse inventory systems; these are things that only a relatively small number of employees will be using, and they're going to be experts or working towards that, and efficiency is the goal, not newbie-friendliness.
  - CharlesColeman 8y ago
    > In short, an interface that's highly efficient for an extremely experienced user probably isn't going to work well for someone who's never used the system before, and vice-versa. For a train ticket machine, it seems to me you want something that's easy for newcomers; you can't assume everyone is a regular user of the system. It's not an either/or. You need to support both sets of users well. Sure, if 90% if interactions are going to be by newbie users, design the system for them. But for something like a train ticket system, maybe 50% of users may be newbie visitors, but only 10% of interactions are by them. It doesn't seem like the right call to cater to newbies if it means making the remaining 90% of non-newbie interactions noticeably worse.
rietta 8y ago
Honestly, I pain for the days of 90s UI. They were so much clearer and usable even with significantly less pixel density than we have today.

brobdingnagians 8y ago

I'm constantly and pleasantly surprised by how nice and feature-ful text utilities are. First time I used htop, I was much happier than most of the GUI task managers I had used. It seems like having a simple user interface helps the designers focus more on having it actually do more of the useful things than on how many pixels to put on that margin...

rayiner 8y ago
You can see this first hand in almost every single Microsoft program that’s undergone a Win32 to Metro/UWP transition. The new versions can’t do anything.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  So true. It’s hard to believe that their new control panels since Win 8 still lack features of the old ones.
- kalleboo 8y ago
  See also: any mobile anything. Many times a week do I have to switch to the desktop site to get things done since it wouldn't fit into the clean mobile design.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  And they do all that nothing so much slower than the old ones. Everyone involved with that project should be ashamed.

ojr 8y ago

working on old software doesn't help your career as much as working on new software from my experience, the job market is too tough as it is, time is more well spent in new technologies, nothing is ever binary but I can strongly agree old software is almost certainly a bad situation to be in but not everyone can explore alternatives because of costs and other factors

maxxxxx 8y ago
That’s the perverse nature of our industry. On the one hand you are told to provide business value but if the most value comes from keeping old tech you are pretty much killing your career if you go that route. Nobody will hire a “dinosaur”.
- ghaff 8y ago
  You might be surprised at the demand for at least some older techs. The demand just won’t be from the “cool” SV companies.
  - magduf 8y ago
    Oh, there's plenty of demand for older techs. The problem is that the pay doesn't match. The demand for people with experience with older tech isn't in the more desirable cities; it's in crappy rust-belt cities, or small towns in the middle of nowhere. And the pay is generally very poor; you'll do much better pay-wise to stick to newer technologies, even if the stuff you're working on is total crap.
    - coldacid 8y ago
      That low-pay job in the Rust Belt probably comes with a better cost-of-living than a $150k job in San Francisco. Don't knock the inlands with coastal elitism thanks.
      - noir_lord 8y ago
        Or assume that everyone is in the US either. I work on crappy legacy code (and some nice shiny new stuff or I'd go insane) for what would be considered in SF a crazy salary (but by UK standards and particulary where I live, decent). Quality of life matters as well, Mon-Fri 9-5 with overtime been a once/twice a year thing.

kalleboo 8y ago

Where I lived before their old train ticket machines had an array of buttons[0] where you keyed in the zone code you were going to, adult/child/senior, hit OK, and stuck your magstripe card in. Once you had ridden a couple of times and knew your home zone code, you could buy a ticket in seconds. Of course, for first time users (especially tourists) they were more confusing. They then replaced them with Windows touchscreen-based machines, where just paging through the stations to find your destination by name took as long as it took to buy your ticket with the old machine. Add to that all your typical touchscreen issues (calibration drift etc) I've been to around 30 countries worldwide and never anywhere seen machines as fast as use as the old ones for repeat users. [0] https://images.hdsydsvenskan.se/980x588/KoHYjzCi_hdzfPAF4xY_j0PR9ls.jpg https://images.hdsydsvenskan.se/980x588/KoHYjzCi_hdzfPAF4xY_...

magduf 8y ago
This is a good illustration of how differently a UI can be designed for different groups of users, who have different needs. Your old train ticket machines were apparently great for locals who were familiar with them, and had memorized information like the zone code, but they were surely horrible for anyone else. By contrast, on my last trip to Germany, the Deutsche Bahn ticket machines weren't the fastest things in the world to use, but for tourists from other countries, they worked pretty well, since they had dozens of different languages you could choose to use the machine in, and had the ability to look up destinations, which is surely a lot easier than trying to figure out some arcade zone code. In short, an interface that's highly efficient for an extremely experienced user probably isn't going to work well for someone who's never used the system before, and vice-versa. For a train ticket machine, it seems to me you want something that's easy for newcomers; you can't assume everyone is a regular user of the system. However, a lot of these comments are talking about things like warehouse inventory systems; these are things that only a relatively small number of employees will be using, and they're going to be experts or working towards that, and efficiency is the goal, not newbie-friendliness.
- CharlesColeman 8y ago
  > In short, an interface that's highly efficient for an extremely experienced user probably isn't going to work well for someone who's never used the system before, and vice-versa. For a train ticket machine, it seems to me you want something that's easy for newcomers; you can't assume everyone is a regular user of the system. It's not an either/or. You need to support both sets of users well. Sure, if 90% if interactions are going to be by newbie users, design the system for them. But for something like a train ticket system, maybe 50% of users may be newbie visitors, but only 10% of interactions are by them. It doesn't seem like the right call to cater to newbies if it means making the remaining 90% of non-newbie interactions noticeably worse.

rietta 8y ago

Honestly, I pain for the days of 90s UI. They were so much clearer and usable even with significantly less pixel density than we have today.