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Conclusion: >> To our knowledge, this is the most comprehensive analysis of adverse events experienced during medically supervised, water-only fasting conducte

by geowwy 8y ago

Conclusion: >> To our knowledge, this is the most comprehensive analysis of adverse events experienced during medically supervised, water-only fasting conducted to date. Overall, our data indicate that the majority of adverse events experienced were mild to moderate and known reactions to fasting. This suggests that the protocol used in this study can be safely implemented in a medical setting with minimal risk of a serious adverse event.

leereeves 8y ago
But is it safe to fast on our own in a non-medical setting? If only "the majority" of adverse events were mild to moderate known reactions, how many were severe? How many were unusual? And what does the medical setting provide (clearance, planning, monitoring, intervention) that people fasting on their own might lack?
- RobertRoberts 8y ago
  Yes. Edit: It seems HN as a culture has a dislike of self confidence when it comes to health. Yes, you can take care of yourself for the most part. Fasting is done by many people in many cultures all over the world. It seems this is a new concept to US citzens and maybe they are afraid of the idea that health is mostly a personal choice.
  - sageabilly 8y ago
    HN has a dislike of one-word answers without any hard data to back them up. If fasting can be undertaken safely by an individual not in a health care setting, how? What is the mechanism for safety? What are some signs that fasting is veering towards unsafe- for that matter, what's unsafe fasting, anyway?
    - teknopaul 8y ago
      Pick any one on the ways used by all the religions that have been doing it safely for generations. You should probably be asking is not fasting safe.
      - chuckgreenman 8y ago
        Religions have a history of giving terrible advice and using force to harm acolytes and decenters alike. We live a lot longer than we used to, it's important to have data that backs up your claims. Just saying that people have done it for a long time doesn't mean much.
        apta 8y ago
        > Religions have a history of giving terrible advice and using force to harm acolytes and decenters alike. He specifically mentioned religions that have safe fasting practices, as demonstrated by people who have been fasting for thousands of years. Your argument is a strawman fallacy.
        teknopaul 8y ago
        Yeah. I wouldnt follow the advice of the fresh-airians. They didnt last very long. If you are really concerned try Ramadan. Personally, I think the benefits are greater with consecutive days of liquid only diet.
- rjzzleep 8y ago
  as safe/unsafe as everything else you have/lack enough experience. is lifting safe? depends on you, your experience and your knowledge about the topic at hand.
- weavie 8y ago
  Obviously there are limits. If you fast for too long you die, regardless of the setting.
  - tomp 8y ago
    But the limits are very wide. There's a guy that allegedly fasted for 382 days, eating only vitamins (and under medical oversight, regular blood tests etc), losing 276 pounds in the process (this translates into -0.72 pounds per day, assuming it was all fat that's 2500 calories, which seems like a normal (average) BMR). https://www.sciencealert.com/the-true-story-of-a-man-who-survived-without-any-food-for-382-days https://www.sciencealert.com/the-true-story-of-a-man-who-sur...
- baldfat 8y ago
  It's safe because humans had to fast. Think about it, humans didn't have a fridge and fast food. Humans had to go through fasting and in now way except the elite have 21 meals a week. When you read books in history winter sucked because the lack of food. They would normally ration and it would literally be feast or famine. Just the way we evolved was to be able to do this.
  - kasperni 8y ago
    While I believe fasting is safe your logic is flawed. If I following your logic, what would the answer be to "Is it safe to not brush your teeth or visit the dentist" It's safe because humans had no access to dental hygiene. Think about it, humans had neither toothbrush or toothpaste. And there where no dentist. Humans had to go through life without proper dental hygiene. Obviously, not taking good care of your teeth is not a good idea. Even though our ancestors didn't.
    - lawlessone 8y ago
      >Obviously, not taking good care of your teeth is not a good idea. Even though our ancestors didn't. TBF our ancestors weren't eating much
      - baldfat 8y ago
        Didn't say it was a benefit (I think there is a benefit though personally). My logic was that it was a common occurrence that humans evolved with the ability to go through long periods of fasting. You can go 40+ days without eating and live and that seems pretty amazing how the human body has adapted. Also looks like cleaning our teeth goes much further back then tooth paste (19th Century Invention) https://recipes.howstuffworks.com/ancestors-eat-to-clean-teeth.htm https://recipes.howstuffworks.com/ancestors-eat-to-clean-tee...
    - buckthundaz 8y ago
      If you eat what our ancestors ate, then you don't need to brush your teeth.[1] [1] https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/dentistry/the-invisible-toothbrush/ https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/dentistry/the-inv...
- wongarsu 8y ago
  You should probably start with a less extreme version than water-only, and work your way up to longer durations and more extreme fasting regimes. As with most other things, mentorship and monitoring (as provided in a medical setting) can substitute experience and knowledge

by geowwy 8y ago

leereeves 8y ago

But is it safe to fast on our own in a non-medical setting? If only "the majority" of adverse events were mild to moderate known reactions, how many were severe? How many were unusual? And what does the medical setting provide (clearance, planning, monitoring, intervention) that people fasting on their own might lack?

RobertRoberts 8y ago
Yes. Edit: It seems HN as a culture has a dislike of self confidence when it comes to health. Yes, you can take care of yourself for the most part. Fasting is done by many people in many cultures all over the world. It seems this is a new concept to US citzens and maybe they are afraid of the idea that health is mostly a personal choice.
- sageabilly 8y ago
  HN has a dislike of one-word answers without any hard data to back them up. If fasting can be undertaken safely by an individual not in a health care setting, how? What is the mechanism for safety? What are some signs that fasting is veering towards unsafe- for that matter, what's unsafe fasting, anyway?
  - teknopaul 8y ago
    Pick any one on the ways used by all the religions that have been doing it safely for generations. You should probably be asking is not fasting safe.
    - chuckgreenman 8y ago
      Religions have a history of giving terrible advice and using force to harm acolytes and decenters alike. We live a lot longer than we used to, it's important to have data that backs up your claims. Just saying that people have done it for a long time doesn't mean much.
      - apta 8y ago
        > Religions have a history of giving terrible advice and using force to harm acolytes and decenters alike. He specifically mentioned religions that have safe fasting practices, as demonstrated by people who have been fasting for thousands of years. Your argument is a strawman fallacy.
        teknopaul 8y ago
        Yeah. I wouldnt follow the advice of the fresh-airians. They didnt last very long. If you are really concerned try Ramadan. Personally, I think the benefits are greater with consecutive days of liquid only diet.
rjzzleep 8y ago
as safe/unsafe as everything else you have/lack enough experience. is lifting safe? depends on you, your experience and your knowledge about the topic at hand.
weavie 8y ago
Obviously there are limits. If you fast for too long you die, regardless of the setting.
- tomp 8y ago
  But the limits are very wide. There's a guy that allegedly fasted for 382 days, eating only vitamins (and under medical oversight, regular blood tests etc), losing 276 pounds in the process (this translates into -0.72 pounds per day, assuming it was all fat that's 2500 calories, which seems like a normal (average) BMR). https://www.sciencealert.com/the-true-story-of-a-man-who-survived-without-any-food-for-382-days https://www.sciencealert.com/the-true-story-of-a-man-who-sur...
baldfat 8y ago
It's safe because humans had to fast. Think about it, humans didn't have a fridge and fast food. Humans had to go through fasting and in now way except the elite have 21 meals a week. When you read books in history winter sucked because the lack of food. They would normally ration and it would literally be feast or famine. Just the way we evolved was to be able to do this.
- kasperni 8y ago
  While I believe fasting is safe your logic is flawed. If I following your logic, what would the answer be to "Is it safe to not brush your teeth or visit the dentist" It's safe because humans had no access to dental hygiene. Think about it, humans had neither toothbrush or toothpaste. And there where no dentist. Humans had to go through life without proper dental hygiene. Obviously, not taking good care of your teeth is not a good idea. Even though our ancestors didn't.
  - lawlessone 8y ago
    >Obviously, not taking good care of your teeth is not a good idea. Even though our ancestors didn't. TBF our ancestors weren't eating much
    - baldfat 8y ago
      Didn't say it was a benefit (I think there is a benefit though personally). My logic was that it was a common occurrence that humans evolved with the ability to go through long periods of fasting. You can go 40+ days without eating and live and that seems pretty amazing how the human body has adapted. Also looks like cleaning our teeth goes much further back then tooth paste (19th Century Invention) https://recipes.howstuffworks.com/ancestors-eat-to-clean-teeth.htm https://recipes.howstuffworks.com/ancestors-eat-to-clean-tee...
  - buckthundaz 8y ago
    If you eat what our ancestors ate, then you don't need to brush your teeth.[1] [1] https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/dentistry/the-invisible-toothbrush/ https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/dentistry/the-inv...
wongarsu 8y ago
You should probably start with a less extreme version than water-only, and work your way up to longer durations and more extreme fasting regimes. As with most other things, mentorship and monitoring (as provided in a medical setting) can substitute experience and knowledge