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> who are notorious for their adherence to rules. That is a meme the Prussians have created to look more scary - to all other Germans.

darkpuma 8y ago
Counterpoint: jaywalking is virtually nonexistent in Germany.
- zaarn 8y ago
  Counteproint: in my town, jaywalking is the norm because there are only 2 traffic lights. I regularly see people jaywalk in the city as well. Usually the reasons for jaywalking are either 1) the road is empty or 2) late for a train/tram/bus. edit: It should also be noted that jaywalking is not illegal in germany IF 1) you're not crossing the road at an intersection with traffic lights for pedestrians AND it is red or 2) you're crossing the road in the shortest and fastest manner without impeding, endangering or otherwise causing trouble in traffic. So if you walked over the road, a police officer could at worst give you a stern talking to. If you crossed a road with a red light for pedestrians, you'd get a 5€ fine.
  - mseidl 8y ago
    I was stopped by a cop in Berlin for jaywalking. He didn't give me a ticket. But there were no cars around either. There is also an unspoken rule for jaywalking, don't do it around kids. I also saw 3 tween girls walking across the street on a green, they were right around half way when the crosswalk light turned red. They all turned around and went back. It was kind of funny. My American friend told me a funny story where he was drinking with German friends, and they walk back at like 3am with no cars in sight and he of course crosses the street and all the Germans were back at other side waiting for it to turn green.
    - thomasz 8y ago
      As always with these kind of things, you should consider explanations which do not require sweeping assumptions about national mentalities. I'm no sociologist, but I'm pretty sure that differences in policing priorities play a big role here. Being fined or at least reprimanded for jaywalking is very common. On the other hand, speeding tickets are a joke, and therefore the notoriously rule adhering Germans do not give a flying fuck about speed limits.
      - TomMarius 8y ago
        I found out that jaywalking is mostly about being from a big busy city (everyone jaywalks because otherwise you would stand more than walk), or being from a small city (no one jaywalks as the semaphores are sensible and traffic low) and a village (everyone jaywalks because there is not even a pavement, however city is scary). Religion plays a role although I've noticed that it's probably just because the religious fathers I know of are very strict.
      - majewsky 8y ago
        > Being fined or at least reprimanded for jaywalking is very common. As one of the grandparent comments correctly pointed out, jaywalking is legal in Germany if the road is empty. (A policeman's instructions would override this rule, however.) Source: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stvo_2013/__25.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stvo_2013/__25.html
    - sankoz 8y ago
      Reminds me of an incident narrated by Prof. Amartya Sen during a speech: He had gone to Germany for a conference. While walking back to his hotel, had to cross the street. There were no vehicles in sight, but the light was red. After waiting for some time, he thought "what the heck", and crossed the street even though the light was still red. After a few minutes, a German man walked up to him and said "Mr. Amartya Sen, in Germany we follow the rules even if there are no cars". He apologised to the German, and asked him if he knew him, may be from the conference. To which the man replied, "I have no idea who you are, I just read your name from the conference ID card hanging from your neck".
  - darkpuma 8y ago
    In Philadelphia, you jaywalk if 1) The next car arrives in 10 seconds and 2) You believe you can get across the street in 9 seconds. If you wait for the light, or because a car is in sight, people think you're weird. People have loyalty not to the law, but to nothing other than self-preservation. Absolutely no consideration for legality is given, whatsoever. This is in my experience in stark contrast with German culture. I assert that there does exist in Germany a cultural appreciation for rules. This is not an exclusively German trait of course, I see similar in Seattle, but it is a trait that Germany has and some other regions do not.
- rndgermandude 8y ago
  Jaywalking is rampant in Germany, tho a bit more "polite" (if you can call it that) from what I am observing every day. People will jaywalk when they think it is safe and when there are no small children around (to avoid being a bad role model), and that is my MO as well; as opposed to the mentality I have seen in other countries where it seemed to me a lot of people will just cross the street no matter whether it's safe or not and let the motorists deal with not hitting anybody.
  - darkpuma 8y ago
    Whether or not the motorist is likely to be capable of stopping in time is factored into the "is it safe?" calculus that people in jaywalking cultures perform. For instance in Philadelphia when it snows, people are more conservative in their jaywalking because they know the stopping distance of a car on ice is longer than a car on dry asphalt.
    - rndgermandude 8y ago
      If a motorist would have to stop for you, or even would have to significantly slow down, then no, it's not considered safe, or "polite". Because the driver may not do that and might hit you.
User23 8y ago
Even the Swabians follow the rules, unless you mean the grammatical ones.

darkpuma 8y ago

Counterpoint: jaywalking is virtually nonexistent in Germany.

zaarn 8y ago
Counteproint: in my town, jaywalking is the norm because there are only 2 traffic lights. I regularly see people jaywalk in the city as well. Usually the reasons for jaywalking are either 1) the road is empty or 2) late for a train/tram/bus. edit: It should also be noted that jaywalking is not illegal in germany IF 1) you're not crossing the road at an intersection with traffic lights for pedestrians AND it is red or 2) you're crossing the road in the shortest and fastest manner without impeding, endangering or otherwise causing trouble in traffic. So if you walked over the road, a police officer could at worst give you a stern talking to. If you crossed a road with a red light for pedestrians, you'd get a 5€ fine.
- mseidl 8y ago
  I was stopped by a cop in Berlin for jaywalking. He didn't give me a ticket. But there were no cars around either. There is also an unspoken rule for jaywalking, don't do it around kids. I also saw 3 tween girls walking across the street on a green, they were right around half way when the crosswalk light turned red. They all turned around and went back. It was kind of funny. My American friend told me a funny story where he was drinking with German friends, and they walk back at like 3am with no cars in sight and he of course crosses the street and all the Germans were back at other side waiting for it to turn green.
  - thomasz 8y ago
    As always with these kind of things, you should consider explanations which do not require sweeping assumptions about national mentalities. I'm no sociologist, but I'm pretty sure that differences in policing priorities play a big role here. Being fined or at least reprimanded for jaywalking is very common. On the other hand, speeding tickets are a joke, and therefore the notoriously rule adhering Germans do not give a flying fuck about speed limits.
    - TomMarius 8y ago
      I found out that jaywalking is mostly about being from a big busy city (everyone jaywalks because otherwise you would stand more than walk), or being from a small city (no one jaywalks as the semaphores are sensible and traffic low) and a village (everyone jaywalks because there is not even a pavement, however city is scary). Religion plays a role although I've noticed that it's probably just because the religious fathers I know of are very strict.
    - majewsky 8y ago
      > Being fined or at least reprimanded for jaywalking is very common. As one of the grandparent comments correctly pointed out, jaywalking is legal in Germany if the road is empty. (A policeman's instructions would override this rule, however.) Source: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stvo_2013/__25.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stvo_2013/__25.html
  - sankoz 8y ago
    Reminds me of an incident narrated by Prof. Amartya Sen during a speech: He had gone to Germany for a conference. While walking back to his hotel, had to cross the street. There were no vehicles in sight, but the light was red. After waiting for some time, he thought "what the heck", and crossed the street even though the light was still red. After a few minutes, a German man walked up to him and said "Mr. Amartya Sen, in Germany we follow the rules even if there are no cars". He apologised to the German, and asked him if he knew him, may be from the conference. To which the man replied, "I have no idea who you are, I just read your name from the conference ID card hanging from your neck".
- darkpuma 8y ago
  In Philadelphia, you jaywalk if 1) The next car arrives in 10 seconds and 2) You believe you can get across the street in 9 seconds. If you wait for the light, or because a car is in sight, people think you're weird. People have loyalty not to the law, but to nothing other than self-preservation. Absolutely no consideration for legality is given, whatsoever. This is in my experience in stark contrast with German culture. I assert that there does exist in Germany a cultural appreciation for rules. This is not an exclusively German trait of course, I see similar in Seattle, but it is a trait that Germany has and some other regions do not.
rndgermandude 8y ago
Jaywalking is rampant in Germany, tho a bit more "polite" (if you can call it that) from what I am observing every day. People will jaywalk when they think it is safe and when there are no small children around (to avoid being a bad role model), and that is my MO as well; as opposed to the mentality I have seen in other countries where it seemed to me a lot of people will just cross the street no matter whether it's safe or not and let the motorists deal with not hitting anybody.
- darkpuma 8y ago
  Whether or not the motorist is likely to be capable of stopping in time is factored into the "is it safe?" calculus that people in jaywalking cultures perform. For instance in Philadelphia when it snows, people are more conservative in their jaywalking because they know the stopping distance of a car on ice is longer than a car on dry asphalt.
  - rndgermandude 8y ago
    If a motorist would have to stop for you, or even would have to significantly slow down, then no, it's not considered safe, or "polite". Because the driver may not do that and might hit you.

User23 8y ago

Even the Swabians follow the rules, unless you mean the grammatical ones.