4 ms·

Well I'm glad no one is hiring you to design user interfaces. Applications work for the user, not the developer. Applications are designed around business logic

Well I'm glad no one is hiring you to design user interfaces. Applications work for the user, not the developer. Applications are designed around business logic and customer demands, not how lazy the developer is. If Firefox saves my tabs on exit then I fully fucking expect my tabs to be there next time I open it up, regardless of my OS state. > MS hater of yesteryear kept blaming MS for the large number of unpatched and therefore insecure Windows systems This logic means that when W7 is up, I'm a bad person for not just upgrading to W10 despite it offering a completely different experience and despite the fact that I owe MS no brand loyalty.

sisu2019 8y ago
> I fully fucking expect my tabs to be there next time I open it up, regardless of my OS stat that's pretty short sighted. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19267411 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19267411 That "Have you tried rebooting it?" is a thing at all is pretty bad but it's going to be so much worse when apps and OSes interact in a way that prevents clean reboot.
- kakarot 8y ago
  I'm trying to figure out what someone's macbook being stuck in a bad state and needing an SPC and NVRAM reset has to do with this conversation. That happens all the time on macbooks. It also has no effect on whether FF's tabs come up next time. And if FF closes suddenly, you have a chance to discard your open tabs on start. Explain to me how my statement is shortsighted again?
  - sisu2019 8y ago
    sorry, I meant to post this link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19268201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19268201
    - kakarot 8y ago
      Sounds like an issue with Chrome, then. The OS handles its own state. That should be invisible to applications. Applications handle their own state. That should be invisible to the OS. As I said, Firefox offers a choice to restore or discard tabs after a bad start or shutdown of the program. If Chrome doesn't have good fail-safe mechanisms, I'm confused about what that has to do with Microsoft and what it has to do with me being shortsighted.
      - sisu2019 8y ago
        In this case it's an issue with Chrome, yes, very good. In other cases it could be an issue with firefox. You won't get into save mode when your OS simply locks up on boot because the bug that causes the lock up is in a tab that auto-restored firefox restores for you. /I am/ a bit confused how it's so hard for you to understand the larger issue, especially since you know about two examples that already illustrated the point.
        kakarot 8y ago
        > You won't get into save mode when your OS simply locks up on boot because the bug that causes the lock up is in a tab that auto-restored firefox restores for you. I'm a bit confused about why you don't perceive the above scenario as a software bug that needs to be fixed, specifically a programmer error dealing with compartmentalization. Compounded further by another error when entering safe mode, as safe mode by design doesn't load any non-essential programs on start. Neither would Linux single-user mode without X. You should always be able to enter safe mode if a particular non-system program is messing things up. That's the point. Anything else is a bug and deviates from spec. If a programmer tried to argue with me that the spec was wrong in this case, they would be fired on the spot. Firefox also doesn't auto restore tabs if it was shutdown improperly, so what you describe shouldn't happen. Has it ever happened to you? Or are you just arguing against a strawman?
        sisu2019 8y ago
        Yes of course it's a bug. Maybe read what I've written about this in my OP. Everything you mentioned is predicated on things working as intended when I am talking about working around bugs users have no control over this whole time. For those cases, like in the examples, we need to keep the real hard reset that's been there the entire history of personal computing. > Firefox also doesn't auto restore tabs if it was shutdown improperly Okay how do you think that is implemented? There is no magic fairy dust that settles in the hard drive, it's code. Code with bugs, code with limitations. Safe mode is code, code with bugs and limitations. With your restore-reboot you now rely on two components to not fail in every single program that could cause something like the examples mentioned. Amazing design, let's make airplanes like that. > they would be fired on the spot spare me the power tripping garbage, instead try to show some comprehension > strawman You don't seem to know what a strawman is.

sisu2019 8y ago

> I fully fucking expect my tabs to be there next time I open it up, regardless of my OS stat that's pretty short sighted. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19267411 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19267411 That "Have you tried rebooting it?" is a thing at all is pretty bad but it's going to be so much worse when apps and OSes interact in a way that prevents clean reboot.

kakarot 8y ago
I'm trying to figure out what someone's macbook being stuck in a bad state and needing an SPC and NVRAM reset has to do with this conversation. That happens all the time on macbooks. It also has no effect on whether FF's tabs come up next time. And if FF closes suddenly, you have a chance to discard your open tabs on start. Explain to me how my statement is shortsighted again?
- sisu2019 8y ago
  sorry, I meant to post this link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19268201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19268201
  - kakarot 8y ago
    Sounds like an issue with Chrome, then. The OS handles its own state. That should be invisible to applications. Applications handle their own state. That should be invisible to the OS. As I said, Firefox offers a choice to restore or discard tabs after a bad start or shutdown of the program. If Chrome doesn't have good fail-safe mechanisms, I'm confused about what that has to do with Microsoft and what it has to do with me being shortsighted.
    - sisu2019 8y ago
      In this case it's an issue with Chrome, yes, very good. In other cases it could be an issue with firefox. You won't get into save mode when your OS simply locks up on boot because the bug that causes the lock up is in a tab that auto-restored firefox restores for you. /I am/ a bit confused how it's so hard for you to understand the larger issue, especially since you know about two examples that already illustrated the point.
      - kakarot 8y ago
        > You won't get into save mode when your OS simply locks up on boot because the bug that causes the lock up is in a tab that auto-restored firefox restores for you. I'm a bit confused about why you don't perceive the above scenario as a software bug that needs to be fixed, specifically a programmer error dealing with compartmentalization. Compounded further by another error when entering safe mode, as safe mode by design doesn't load any non-essential programs on start. Neither would Linux single-user mode without X. You should always be able to enter safe mode if a particular non-system program is messing things up. That's the point. Anything else is a bug and deviates from spec. If a programmer tried to argue with me that the spec was wrong in this case, they would be fired on the spot. Firefox also doesn't auto restore tabs if it was shutdown improperly, so what you describe shouldn't happen. Has it ever happened to you? Or are you just arguing against a strawman?
        sisu2019 8y ago
        Yes of course it's a bug. Maybe read what I've written about this in my OP. Everything you mentioned is predicated on things working as intended when I am talking about working around bugs users have no control over this whole time. For those cases, like in the examples, we need to keep the real hard reset that's been there the entire history of personal computing. > Firefox also doesn't auto restore tabs if it was shutdown improperly Okay how do you think that is implemented? There is no magic fairy dust that settles in the hard drive, it's code. Code with bugs, code with limitations. Safe mode is code, code with bugs and limitations. With your restore-reboot you now rely on two components to not fail in every single program that could cause something like the examples mentioned. Amazing design, let's make airplanes like that. > they would be fired on the spot spare me the power tripping garbage, instead try to show some comprehension > strawman You don't seem to know what a strawman is.