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That's cool, but I think that most people here agree that mice are a pretty terrible method of interfacing with a computer. Every time you use a mouse, you hav

That's cool, but I think that most people here agree that mice are a pretty terrible method of interfacing with a computer. Every time you use a mouse, you have to re-orient your self to the state of the mouse (its current location and its use within a given application). That is why we spend so much time optimizing applications for use with a fixed controller (a keyboard). A touch screen is a bit better than a mouse for lots of stuff and it preserves the discoverability of a mouse-based UI. Unfortunately it retains the drawbacks of a mouse based ui. Worse is that there is no fixed controller on a smartphone that might allow faster interaction w/ apps. This is where I think we are getting in trouble. In a traditional computer setup, you interact with the mouse when you are learning new software, and eventually transition to using a keyboard more and more. With touch based stuff, it seems like when an app is first released it has a simple, discoverable UI. But over time, as people become comfortable w/ the app, its UI becomes less approachable to suit the needs of more expert users and new users are left behind (snapchat for example). In my opinion a touch screen is fine for consumptive devices where many different UI elements are required and input is light. Creative devices should have a fixed controller like a keyboard, joystick, etc.

HenryBemis 8y ago
I remember Wozniak once said that if you wait long enough, what you said will be true. Apparently he said once (a looooooong time ago) that a mouse is a useless device and nobody would need one. So with the use of the touch-screens mouse use will be reduced. I have to say that although my laptop does have a very good touch-screen, I still use my mouse for 80% of the actions. Perhaps when browsing or changing windows (to continue browing) I may be using my fingers. But try to select text and change it to Bold on Word, when on the highest possible screen resolution, and well.. you know what happens. Of course for small portable devices, such as a phone, to write a small note it 'good enough' when using the software keyboard, and the fact that the usual mode on smartphones is 'one-app-at-a-time' displayed on the screen, makes for a simpler UI and UX.
rasz 8y ago
Want to play an FPS game against me? you will use any combination of keyboard, joystick, touch screen you prefer.
- majewsky 8y ago
  Better stock up on mice to get through all the FPS games you have to play during a normal workday.
  - rasz 8y ago
    Jokes on you, I was an Esports "athlete" (World of Tanks)! :P
- Skunkleton 8y ago
  Was that the internet equivalent of a "come at me bro"? My point wasn't that mice aren't useful, it was that UIs shouldn't _only_ use mice. Further, touch screens are in trouble because they are just like mice, but they aren't paired with a fixed controller.
einr 8y ago
That's cool, but I think that most people here agree that mice are a pretty terrible method of interfacing with a computer. I think mice are excellent, and I think their longevity has proven that people like them, understand well how to use them, and that they are very useful for many computer tasks. Touchscreens and digitizer tablets and trackballs and all sorts of alternate input methods have existed for thirty years or more, yet they have never broke into the mainstream on desktop computers for anything but niche applications. The ergonomics and precision of a touchscreen on a desktop or laptop computer are generally abysmal. I can easily move my mouse one pixel at a time when doing graphics work and such with a mouse. Stuff like this is impossible with a touchscreen and big clumsy fingers. Creative devices should have a fixed controller like a keyboard, joystick, etc. Or maybe a mouse...
bitwize 8y ago
> Every time you use a mouse, you have to re-orient your self to the state of the mouse (its current location and its use within a given application). That is why we spend so much time optimizing applications for use with a fixed controller (a keyboard). No. This is wrong. The mouse is faster. Apple did that research, too -- and the mouse won every time: https://asktog.com/TOI/toi06KeyboardVMouse1.html https://asktog.com/TOI/toi06KeyboardVMouse1.html Recognizing and pointing is always faster than remembering command sequences you have to press/type in. It imposes less of a cognitive burden too, which means you can focus more on the task you're doing and less on the interface itself. Apple absolutely made the right call with a mouse-centric UI in 1984 and they made the right call with touch in 2007. That's why they're Apple -- you don't become the most successful and influential tech company in the world by making stupid choices.
- ams6110 8y ago
  No, I can definitely hit Alt-Q to close a window, or Ctrl-k to delete a line of text in emacs, before I even finish reaching for the mouse. I'll buy that some tasks maybe faster with a mouse, but not everything.
devit 8y ago
Keyboards are only faster if you have spent the time learning the shortcuts for a specific application. With a mouse, you can use any application right away with no learning curve, and also interact with the content itself better than with a keyboard.
- Skunkleton 8y ago
  That is exactly my point. Touch screens don't have the faster thing to fall back on, so apps end up optimizing the touch interface for speed at the expense of discoverability.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
Somebody is a webdev who works in a terminal all day. Mice are great. They can be used for drawing, dragging, context menus, scrolling, and to quickly and precisely select and manipulate distant controls. Those things are significantly more tedious when performed with a keyboard, or require pre-configured hotkeys. The mouse has stuck around for a reason.
- Skunkleton 8y ago
  Even worse, I am an operating systems dev. But to be specific, I agree that mice are a useful tool for some tasks. But novices use them like a hammer and everything becomes a nail.

HenryBemis 8y ago

I remember Wozniak once said that if you wait long enough, what you said will be true. Apparently he said once (a looooooong time ago) that a mouse is a useless device and nobody would need one. So with the use of the touch-screens mouse use will be reduced. I have to say that although my laptop does have a very good touch-screen, I still use my mouse for 80% of the actions. Perhaps when browsing or changing windows (to continue browing) I may be using my fingers. But try to select text and change it to Bold on Word, when on the highest possible screen resolution, and well.. you know what happens. Of course for small portable devices, such as a phone, to write a small note it 'good enough' when using the software keyboard, and the fact that the usual mode on smartphones is 'one-app-at-a-time' displayed on the screen, makes for a simpler UI and UX.

rasz 8y ago

Want to play an FPS game against me? you will use any combination of keyboard, joystick, touch screen you prefer.

majewsky 8y ago
Better stock up on mice to get through all the FPS games you have to play during a normal workday.
- rasz 8y ago
  Jokes on you, I was an Esports "athlete" (World of Tanks)! :P
Skunkleton 8y ago
Was that the internet equivalent of a "come at me bro"? My point wasn't that mice aren't useful, it was that UIs shouldn't _only_ use mice. Further, touch screens are in trouble because they are just like mice, but they aren't paired with a fixed controller.

einr 8y ago

That's cool, but I think that most people here agree that mice are a pretty terrible method of interfacing with a computer. I think mice are excellent, and I think their longevity has proven that people like them, understand well how to use them, and that they are very useful for many computer tasks. Touchscreens and digitizer tablets and trackballs and all sorts of alternate input methods have existed for thirty years or more, yet they have never broke into the mainstream on desktop computers for anything but niche applications. The ergonomics and precision of a touchscreen on a desktop or laptop computer are generally abysmal. I can easily move my mouse one pixel at a time when doing graphics work and such with a mouse. Stuff like this is impossible with a touchscreen and big clumsy fingers. Creative devices should have a fixed controller like a keyboard, joystick, etc. Or maybe a mouse...

bitwize 8y ago

> Every time you use a mouse, you have to re-orient your self to the state of the mouse (its current location and its use within a given application). That is why we spend so much time optimizing applications for use with a fixed controller (a keyboard). No. This is wrong. The mouse is faster. Apple did that research, too -- and the mouse won every time: https://asktog.com/TOI/toi06KeyboardVMouse1.html https://asktog.com/TOI/toi06KeyboardVMouse1.html Recognizing and pointing is always faster than remembering command sequences you have to press/type in. It imposes less of a cognitive burden too, which means you can focus more on the task you're doing and less on the interface itself. Apple absolutely made the right call with a mouse-centric UI in 1984 and they made the right call with touch in 2007. That's why they're Apple -- you don't become the most successful and influential tech company in the world by making stupid choices.

ams6110 8y ago
No, I can definitely hit Alt-Q to close a window, or Ctrl-k to delete a line of text in emacs, before I even finish reaching for the mouse. I'll buy that some tasks maybe faster with a mouse, but not everything.

devit 8y ago

Keyboards are only faster if you have spent the time learning the shortcuts for a specific application. With a mouse, you can use any application right away with no learning curve, and also interact with the content itself better than with a keyboard.

Skunkleton 8y ago
That is exactly my point. Touch screens don't have the faster thing to fall back on, so apps end up optimizing the touch interface for speed at the expense of discoverability.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

Somebody is a webdev who works in a terminal all day. Mice are great. They can be used for drawing, dragging, context menus, scrolling, and to quickly and precisely select and manipulate distant controls. Those things are significantly more tedious when performed with a keyboard, or require pre-configured hotkeys. The mouse has stuck around for a reason.

Skunkleton 8y ago
Even worse, I am an operating systems dev. But to be specific, I agree that mice are a useful tool for some tasks. But novices use them like a hammer and everything becomes a nail.