5 ms·

Police in Canada Are Tracking People’s ‘Negative’ Behavior in a ‘Risk' Database

13 points by longdefeat 8y ago

staticautomatic 8y ago
I don't understand what's so bad about this as a program.
- omouse 8y ago
  Here are a few quotes that are, hopefully, explanatory of why it's bad: > One Ontario social worker, who participates in a Situation Table and spoke to Motherboard on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media, expressed worry about the high number of minors being evaluated for intervention, and having their information added to the RTD, because of “how often [interventions] are done without consent.” And: > According to Israel, there is a risk that if authorities don’t refine the data in the RTD over time to determine if a specific risk factor actually leads to increased crime or harm, flawed predictions could influence policing decisions. Finally: > “We can’t have processes that are based on using exceptions to privacy law, with no transparency or accountability as to how [Hubs] are interpreting those exceptions,” she said. “Privacy is a human right. It can’t be eroded just to make someone’s job easier.” So it boils down to: - no consent - flawed data that influences predictive algorithms (which are not transparent and not audited) - privacy is a human right, this tracking program violates that right (at least as it is currently implemented) If you live in a democracy, you can expect certain rights (and of course the responsibilities that come with those rights). If you're a taxpayer, you can also expect certain things of your government. Essentially this boils down to "Canada is a democracy, not an authoritarian regime that monitors and tracks people".
  - staticautomatic 8y ago
    No need to patronize. I read the article. Obviously it has problems that need to be addressed. I just don't find the program as a whole to be conceptually objectionable.
DKnoll 8y ago
While I think there are some causes for concern here, especially bearing in mind the high value Canadians place on individual privacy, there are positive elements to this. >Hub assessments and interventions often involve people who are especially vulnerable. For example, many cases focus on minors: in North Bay, Ontario, 45 percent of those deemed to require an intervention in 2015 were between 12 and 17 years old, [according to a report] in the Northern Ontario Medical Journal. The part of this quote from the article wrapped in square brackets links to this report: http://www.nomj.ca/2016/12/11/mobilization-hubs-support-people-at-risk.html http://www.nomj.ca/2016/12/11/mobilization-hubs-support-peop... Here is an excerpt: >The mobilization hub deals with all ages. Witmer says in North Bay the number of seniors requiring services has increased. Police often get repeat 911 calls from elderly people who may have no family supports. Witmer points out that 65 per cent of the top risk factors at the North Bay table are related to mental health issues. “With mental health, it’s not someone who has committed a crime, it’s where they’re moving in that direction. Police would maybe get 10 calls from the same person, someone who is off the rails. If we can go in and support them and get them connected before they really go off the rails then that’s helped the system,” said Witmer. He recalls one case where a panhandler with mental health and alcohol issues was the subject of repeated public complaint calls to the police. The case went to the mobilization hub and, together, the agencies helped the man find counseling, housing, and additional supports to get him off the streets. This program has the potential, as in the case above, to keep people out of the criminal justice system and divert them to community programs that can assist them. In past situations like this would likely be handled with an arrest. I would encourage everyone to take anything Vice Media says in regards to Canadian government (or really anything except pop culture) with a grain of salt. They are critical of the government and police 100% of the time regardless of who is in power and refuse to recognise positive changes when they occur because outrage gets more views. >Documents obtained by Motherboard from Ontario’s Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services (MCSCS) through an access to information request show that at least two provinces—Ontario and Saskatchewan—maintain a “Risk-driven Tracking Database” that is used to amass highly sensitive information about people’s lives. This statement implies that this database is kept a secret, when in reality if you Google 'Risk-driven Tracking Database' you get a fair bit of information on it. In addition every document and resource they reference in the article has been published publicly by either the federal government or various municipal and regional governments. To imply that this type of policing is new or unprecedented ignores the Peelian Principles originating from London in the 19th century used as a model for police across the Commonwealth. The first of these 9 principles is as follows: >To prevent crime and disorder, as an alternative to their repression by military force and severity of legal punishment.
upofadown 8y ago
If the data in the database is "de-identified" then how does it eventually lead to interventions?

13 points by longdefeat 8y ago

staticautomatic 8y ago

I don't understand what's so bad about this as a program.

omouse 8y ago
Here are a few quotes that are, hopefully, explanatory of why it's bad: > One Ontario social worker, who participates in a Situation Table and spoke to Motherboard on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media, expressed worry about the high number of minors being evaluated for intervention, and having their information added to the RTD, because of “how often [interventions] are done without consent.” And: > According to Israel, there is a risk that if authorities don’t refine the data in the RTD over time to determine if a specific risk factor actually leads to increased crime or harm, flawed predictions could influence policing decisions. Finally: > “We can’t have processes that are based on using exceptions to privacy law, with no transparency or accountability as to how [Hubs] are interpreting those exceptions,” she said. “Privacy is a human right. It can’t be eroded just to make someone’s job easier.” So it boils down to: - no consent - flawed data that influences predictive algorithms (which are not transparent and not audited) - privacy is a human right, this tracking program violates that right (at least as it is currently implemented) If you live in a democracy, you can expect certain rights (and of course the responsibilities that come with those rights). If you're a taxpayer, you can also expect certain things of your government. Essentially this boils down to "Canada is a democracy, not an authoritarian regime that monitors and tracks people".
- staticautomatic 8y ago
  No need to patronize. I read the article. Obviously it has problems that need to be addressed. I just don't find the program as a whole to be conceptually objectionable.

DKnoll 8y ago

While I think there are some causes for concern here, especially bearing in mind the high value Canadians place on individual privacy, there are positive elements to this. >Hub assessments and interventions often involve people who are especially vulnerable. For example, many cases focus on minors: in North Bay, Ontario, 45 percent of those deemed to require an intervention in 2015 were between 12 and 17 years old, [according to a report] in the Northern Ontario Medical Journal. The part of this quote from the article wrapped in square brackets links to this report: http://www.nomj.ca/2016/12/11/mobilization-hubs-support-people-at-risk.html http://www.nomj.ca/2016/12/11/mobilization-hubs-support-peop... Here is an excerpt: >The mobilization hub deals with all ages. Witmer says in North Bay the number of seniors requiring services has increased. Police often get repeat 911 calls from elderly people who may have no family supports. Witmer points out that 65 per cent of the top risk factors at the North Bay table are related to mental health issues. “With mental health, it’s not someone who has committed a crime, it’s where they’re moving in that direction. Police would maybe get 10 calls from the same person, someone who is off the rails. If we can go in and support them and get them connected before they really go off the rails then that’s helped the system,” said Witmer. He recalls one case where a panhandler with mental health and alcohol issues was the subject of repeated public complaint calls to the police. The case went to the mobilization hub and, together, the agencies helped the man find counseling, housing, and additional supports to get him off the streets. This program has the potential, as in the case above, to keep people out of the criminal justice system and divert them to community programs that can assist them. In past situations like this would likely be handled with an arrest. I would encourage everyone to take anything Vice Media says in regards to Canadian government (or really anything except pop culture) with a grain of salt. They are critical of the government and police 100% of the time regardless of who is in power and refuse to recognise positive changes when they occur because outrage gets more views. >Documents obtained by Motherboard from Ontario’s Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services (MCSCS) through an access to information request show that at least two provinces—Ontario and Saskatchewan—maintain a “Risk-driven Tracking Database” that is used to amass highly sensitive information about people’s lives. This statement implies that this database is kept a secret, when in reality if you Google 'Risk-driven Tracking Database' you get a fair bit of information on it. In addition every document and resource they reference in the article has been published publicly by either the federal government or various municipal and regional governments. To imply that this type of policing is new or unprecedented ignores the Peelian Principles originating from London in the 19th century used as a model for police across the Commonwealth. The first of these 9 principles is as follows: >To prevent crime and disorder, as an alternative to their repression by military force and severity of legal punishment.

upofadown 8y ago

If the data in the database is "de-identified" then how does it eventually lead to interventions?