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The open world style of Breath of the Wild seemed amazing at first, but I failed to get into it like I had every other Zelda game. It didn't feel like a Zelda g

The open world style of Breath of the Wild seemed amazing at first, but I failed to get into it like I had every other Zelda game. It didn't feel like a Zelda game to me. It may be more successful to make that style of game, but it would alienate fans of the traditional style of the game like myself.

tnecniv 8y ago
My biggest complaint with BotW was that the pacing was odd. It was clear they designed everything in the world to be completed on the time scale of a subway ride. I understand why they did this, given that it was the launch game of a new handheld platform, but it felt limiting from a design perspective. Most of the puzzles just weren't that challenging and the dungeons were rather lackluster instead of being big events.
- I-M-S 8y ago
  BOTW was designed for WiiU, which is not a mobile console
Someone1234 8y ago
You're likely correct. But I'd argue that BotW was the most popular Zelda game ever, so while it did upset some of the fanbase it brought in more new people than it lost in traditionalists. With Pokemon, they already have multiple branches of games running side-by-side. I would think that if they did an open world game, it wouldn't be part of the main franchise but rather its own new branch. A new line of games would likely give them more freedom to break away from the typical formula as well (e.g. not gym-based progression).
- izzydata 8y ago
  It's probably for the best that they search for a new audience. Trying to appeal to an aging fan-base that will have less time for games is not a great financial decision.
  - Qwertystop 8y ago
    They haven't been searching for a new audience - at least, not with the mainlines. The mainline Pokemon games are consistently aimed towards the same age group; sure, the old fanbase ages out of it, but new kids keep turning up. There's some stuff in there for long-time fans and more precocious/deeply interested kids (all the competitive stuff), but the single-player campaign has always been for grade-schoolers.
chimeracoder 8y ago
> The open world style of Breath of the Wild seemed amazing at first, but I failed to get into it like I had every other Zelda game. It didn't feel like a Zelda game to me. I like open-world games (e.g. Far Cry 5), so I enjoyed Breath of the Wild, but I'd agree that it felt like functionally a completely different style of game altogether. It's a distinct genre, so I'm surprised that they went that route.
setr 8y ago
gamefreak has done tons of spinoffs, and relatively big budget ones at that, before; I really don't think alienation is much of a concern. See Pokemon Snap, Stadium, Colliseum, Hey You!, Ranger, Mystery Dungeon. And those are just the ones that aren't pokemon-themed skins over arcade games like pinball. Zelda is a quite different as they've done a lot less with other mediums than the core series (they still tried ofc, but it hasn't been nearly as effective or impactful). Also BotW is closest we're going to get to WindWaker, the greatest of the Zeldas
fixermark 8y ago
It's an interesting take. For me, I felt BotW was a return to the original form: the first game clearly had a path of progression in mind, but didn't technically stop you from picking up (or refraining from picking up) the wooden sword and tooling around on Death Mountain right from the start if you wanted (granted, you couldn't actually challenge Ganon unless you did beat all 8 dungeons, unlike BotW). As of approximately Ocarina of Time (if not Zelda 2), Zelda games have been a lot more "on rails" in the sense of a well-defined path of progression that is difficult to break (generally because of the need for some artifact or some plot-point to develop that opens the next path point). BotW gave me a clear directional hint (key for modern game design; we're well past the point where most players lack patience for "Here you are; I won't explain the rules; try not to die" game design), but if I wanted to ignore the hint and go run off into the sunset or try to rodeo a Lynel in my shorts with three hearts, I could.
- eganist 8y ago
  Context for those who haven't played: > or try to rodeo a Lynel Taming one of the toughest non-boss enemies in the game, starting at 2,000 HP and ranging up to 5,000 HP. > in my shorts No equipped armor/clothes, meaning no reduction to damage if hit > with three hearts Early-stage, just-started Link. In tandem with "in my shorts," every hit from a Lynel in this condition would be a one-hit kill. Beyond that, it's implied that Link in this condition might only have access to the most primitive weapons (around 25-30 HP per hit before meal/potion bonuses), though even assuming the absolute maximum damage doable from even the best weapon with the best consumable bonus (~110 HP), you're looking at landing 19 hits on the weakest of these guys without being touched. It's doable on speedruns by advanced players who've gotten a hang of all of the game mechanics. Fixermark's point is more that BotW gives you the option of embracing this sort of masochism should you choose, but it includes a predefined soft-path should you not.
ocdtrekkie 8y ago
Breakable weapons was the biggest demotivator to me. I really enjoy just dropping into a classic Zelda game and being able to enjoy myself, without worrying about breaking my good weapons or whatever. Wind Waker has a dungeon with 100 levels of enemies, and it's actually fun to start the game up just to play through that.
- mcphage 8y ago
  > Breakable weapons was the biggest demotivator to me. It's an interesting situation—breakable weapons has the greatest impact at the beginning of the game, when you haven't yet found sources for your favorite weapons. On the other hand, it has the least gameplay impact at the start of the game, since the weapons that you find early on are weak, uninteresting, and easily replaceable. So like I get what they were going for, but I don't think they hit the mark with the mechanic; it's most annoying when it matters the least, and by the end of the game, when you've got your katanas and glowing chainsaw swords and whatnot, it barely matters at all. > Wind Waker has a dungeon with 100 levels of enemies, and it's actually fun to start the game up just to play through that. Breath of the Wild has a similar dungeon in the DLC, and actually the breakable weapons makes it even more interesting. You lose all of your weapons at the start, so you can't just take in your favorites, you have to improvise and make do with what you can scavenge as you go along. You also don't need to worry about saving your best weapons because you can't, as you'll need them all, and what you have left at the end of the dungeon will disappear anyway. Or when you lose; I'll admit I haven't beaten it yet.
  - ocdtrekkie 8y ago
    The thing for me, is that I haven't even hit a "dang, I wasted all my weapons and have problems now" point, but the very nature of their breakability makes me hesitate to use them/play the game. It has a chilling effect on my enjoyment of the game, even if the game is balanced and non-frustrating.
    - mcphage 8y ago
      In the end, no game is for every person, so it's possible you just won't like it. But if you embrace the weapon durability, and say "I'll use this weapon because I have it, and when I need another I'll either find one better, or make do with what I can scavenge", then you may find it's part of the fun of the game. Or at least, won't get in your way.
mcphage 8y ago
> it would alienate fans of the traditional style of the game like myself Some fans of the traditional style. I've been playing Zelda games since the original, and Breath of the Wild quickly became my favorite.

tnecniv 8y ago

My biggest complaint with BotW was that the pacing was odd. It was clear they designed everything in the world to be completed on the time scale of a subway ride. I understand why they did this, given that it was the launch game of a new handheld platform, but it felt limiting from a design perspective. Most of the puzzles just weren't that challenging and the dungeons were rather lackluster instead of being big events.

I-M-S 8y ago
BOTW was designed for WiiU, which is not a mobile console

Someone1234 8y ago

You're likely correct. But I'd argue that BotW was the most popular Zelda game ever, so while it did upset some of the fanbase it brought in more new people than it lost in traditionalists. With Pokemon, they already have multiple branches of games running side-by-side. I would think that if they did an open world game, it wouldn't be part of the main franchise but rather its own new branch. A new line of games would likely give them more freedom to break away from the typical formula as well (e.g. not gym-based progression).

izzydata 8y ago
It's probably for the best that they search for a new audience. Trying to appeal to an aging fan-base that will have less time for games is not a great financial decision.
- Qwertystop 8y ago
  They haven't been searching for a new audience - at least, not with the mainlines. The mainline Pokemon games are consistently aimed towards the same age group; sure, the old fanbase ages out of it, but new kids keep turning up. There's some stuff in there for long-time fans and more precocious/deeply interested kids (all the competitive stuff), but the single-player campaign has always been for grade-schoolers.

chimeracoder 8y ago

> The open world style of Breath of the Wild seemed amazing at first, but I failed to get into it like I had every other Zelda game. It didn't feel like a Zelda game to me. I like open-world games (e.g. Far Cry 5), so I enjoyed Breath of the Wild, but I'd agree that it felt like functionally a completely different style of game altogether. It's a distinct genre, so I'm surprised that they went that route.

setr 8y ago

gamefreak has done tons of spinoffs, and relatively big budget ones at that, before; I really don't think alienation is much of a concern. See Pokemon Snap, Stadium, Colliseum, Hey You!, Ranger, Mystery Dungeon. And those are just the ones that aren't pokemon-themed skins over arcade games like pinball. Zelda is a quite different as they've done a lot less with other mediums than the core series (they still tried ofc, but it hasn't been nearly as effective or impactful). Also BotW is closest we're going to get to WindWaker, the greatest of the Zeldas

fixermark 8y ago

It's an interesting take. For me, I felt BotW was a return to the original form: the first game clearly had a path of progression in mind, but didn't technically stop you from picking up (or refraining from picking up) the wooden sword and tooling around on Death Mountain right from the start if you wanted (granted, you couldn't actually challenge Ganon unless you did beat all 8 dungeons, unlike BotW). As of approximately Ocarina of Time (if not Zelda 2), Zelda games have been a lot more "on rails" in the sense of a well-defined path of progression that is difficult to break (generally because of the need for some artifact or some plot-point to develop that opens the next path point). BotW gave me a clear directional hint (key for modern game design; we're well past the point where most players lack patience for "Here you are; I won't explain the rules; try not to die" game design), but if I wanted to ignore the hint and go run off into the sunset or try to rodeo a Lynel in my shorts with three hearts, I could.

eganist 8y ago
Context for those who haven't played: > or try to rodeo a Lynel Taming one of the toughest non-boss enemies in the game, starting at 2,000 HP and ranging up to 5,000 HP. > in my shorts No equipped armor/clothes, meaning no reduction to damage if hit > with three hearts Early-stage, just-started Link. In tandem with "in my shorts," every hit from a Lynel in this condition would be a one-hit kill. Beyond that, it's implied that Link in this condition might only have access to the most primitive weapons (around 25-30 HP per hit before meal/potion bonuses), though even assuming the absolute maximum damage doable from even the best weapon with the best consumable bonus (~110 HP), you're looking at landing 19 hits on the weakest of these guys without being touched. It's doable on speedruns by advanced players who've gotten a hang of all of the game mechanics. Fixermark's point is more that BotW gives you the option of embracing this sort of masochism should you choose, but it includes a predefined soft-path should you not.

ocdtrekkie 8y ago

Breakable weapons was the biggest demotivator to me. I really enjoy just dropping into a classic Zelda game and being able to enjoy myself, without worrying about breaking my good weapons or whatever. Wind Waker has a dungeon with 100 levels of enemies, and it's actually fun to start the game up just to play through that.

mcphage 8y ago
> Breakable weapons was the biggest demotivator to me. It's an interesting situation—breakable weapons has the greatest impact at the beginning of the game, when you haven't yet found sources for your favorite weapons. On the other hand, it has the least gameplay impact at the start of the game, since the weapons that you find early on are weak, uninteresting, and easily replaceable. So like I get what they were going for, but I don't think they hit the mark with the mechanic; it's most annoying when it matters the least, and by the end of the game, when you've got your katanas and glowing chainsaw swords and whatnot, it barely matters at all. > Wind Waker has a dungeon with 100 levels of enemies, and it's actually fun to start the game up just to play through that. Breath of the Wild has a similar dungeon in the DLC, and actually the breakable weapons makes it even more interesting. You lose all of your weapons at the start, so you can't just take in your favorites, you have to improvise and make do with what you can scavenge as you go along. You also don't need to worry about saving your best weapons because you can't, as you'll need them all, and what you have left at the end of the dungeon will disappear anyway. Or when you lose; I'll admit I haven't beaten it yet.
- ocdtrekkie 8y ago
  The thing for me, is that I haven't even hit a "dang, I wasted all my weapons and have problems now" point, but the very nature of their breakability makes me hesitate to use them/play the game. It has a chilling effect on my enjoyment of the game, even if the game is balanced and non-frustrating.
  - mcphage 8y ago
    In the end, no game is for every person, so it's possible you just won't like it. But if you embrace the weapon durability, and say "I'll use this weapon because I have it, and when I need another I'll either find one better, or make do with what I can scavenge", then you may find it's part of the fun of the game. Or at least, won't get in your way.

mcphage 8y ago

> it would alienate fans of the traditional style of the game like myself Some fans of the traditional style. I've been playing Zelda games since the original, and Breath of the Wild quickly became my favorite.