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I really think this is one place where standards could be transformative for society. Not only the obvious benefits, but standardized bottle shapes allow manuf

I really think this is one place where standards could be transformative for society. Not only the obvious benefits, but standardized bottle shapes allow manufacturers of, say, refrigerators and furniture to tailor their wine racks/dairy drawers/etc to fit the standard product packages perfectly. This gets you more room in your fridge, and your living room... And then places like Amazon can tailor their boxes to perfectly fit the products too. I noticed this when I went into a Japanese bookstore and saw that all the books were the same shape, even from different publishers, and the bookshelves were perfectly sized to fit them. I don't know what kind of power brought that about (small homes?), but compared to a North American bookstore where it seems every book is fighting to be a different size and shape, to stick out from the shelf and stand taller than its neighbours.

close04 8y ago
Size and shape are powerful differentiators in marketing. Just think of how recognizable is a bottle of Coke compared to a generic soda. With the money most companies invest(ed) in this they will be very reluctant to go to a standardized model soon. But I guess eventually efficiency will win.
- CamTin 8y ago
  On the other hand, many container types are already de facto standardized: the lid of the pint of the cottage cheese and the quart of yogurt in my fridge right now, for example, are interchangeable even though they're from totally different dairies. Milk jugs and cartons are standardized. Cereal boxes, most pop bottles. Instant noodle bricks. The list isn't as long as the list of all possible products, but there are clearly benefits to standardization even in the absence of legislation mandating it.
  - anticensor 8y ago
    There are only a handful of carton providers in the world (TetraPak is leading in carton in Europe, for example). Everyone uses or clones their machinery and designs.
    - CamTin 8y ago
      Right, the point being that even absent the requirement to do so, dairies have figured out that it's cheaper/better to all use the same packaging.
- nslav 8y ago
  Standardizing size and shape across brands does not appear to bother soda companies when they are packaging their product in cans. It doesn't seem unreasonable to require them to do the same for bottles in order to avoid mountains of plastic waste.
  - 1zee 8y ago
    just ban plastic bottles.... cans work just fine.
    - AstralStorm 8y ago
      Whole cans are easy to recycle, but doing so requires melting the metal back into stock and noxious chemicals to clean the metal. That is all very expensive and environmentally unfriendly compared to potential for reuse of strong bottles. Unless you force a redesign so that cans are reusable. (No more tab - instead a bottle cap, standard shape, no crushing, heavier, thicker, more expensive.)
    - itronitron 8y ago
      I expect that soft drinks could easily be sold in a mini-keg form factor.
      - cr0sh 8y ago
        There exists aluminum bottles - Coke at one time sold their soda in them (I think it was some kind of commemorative edition or something like that). That would have the same benefit as bottles: The ability to drink only part of the contents (like people do with water). The downside is that you can't see what is inside (an important factor for many people when they purchase - especially water).
- wool_gather 8y ago
  There's the iconic Coke glass bottle, sure, but larger plastic beverage bottles have no discernible differences; same with cans, cardboard cartons, gallon jugs, even, for the most part, glass beer bottles.
  - AlgorithmicTime 8y ago
    Plastic coke bottles are a distinctive shape these days.
- Symbiote 8y ago
  We can ban different shapes, and the company will have to manage without this "differentiator". Soda supplied to bars and restaurants in Denmark is usually in returnable bottles, including Fanta and Sprite (which elsewhere have shaped bottles). Coca Cola has a shape, but perhaps they sell enough to make it worthwhile to sort these from the usual shape. https://www.bevco.dk/vand-og-mixer/sodavand/filter/flaske_type/glasflaske/land/danmark/leverandor/carlsberg-danmark-a-s https://www.bevco.dk/vand-og-mixer/sodavand/filter/flaske_ty... (I drink close to zero soda at home. I know supermarkets sell cans and plastic bottles, both single-use but with a deposit. Possibly they sell the glass ones too. Most Danish beer is sold in a reusable bottle, foreign or microbrew beer just has a deposit but the bottle isn't reused.)
  - asdf333 8y ago
    aluminum soda cans are a great example of standardized containers that work right now
    - mrkstu 8y ago
      Did until recently- notice that you can now get regular Diet Coke (and I assume other sodas) in mini cans and the new Diet Coke flavors come in skinny/tall cans only.
      - cr0sh 8y ago
        It's a funny thing - manufacturers of products want to "stand out" from competition - so they use unique shaped containers for their products... ...the same is true for the container companies! The want to stand out from their competition - so they introduce new products (containers) with new shapes or sizes for that purpose. While I am certain that some product manufacturers can dictate or have custom-shaped containers for their brand only, for many they just choose an off-the-shelf version and brand using labeling and/or color. So - while going with standard-sized containers would be great for a whole host of reasons, for the product manufacturers - both for what is being contained, and the containers themselves - it presents a huge loss of profit and market share. I'm not sure what we can do about this; it seems like something that would have to be dictated by government, because I doubt any of the other stakeholders (not even the consumers) will sway the decision toward standardized containers. Soda cans (and for that matter, soup cans) are almost the only examples we have (ok - plastic milk jugs and paper milk cartons?), but as you have noticed, that's starting to fragment (it had already started with beer cans long before).
- pxlpshr 8y ago
  Size and shape reminds me of the arguement the music industry made about CD packaging and inserts being tangible, value-adds to the listening experience. Turns out, especially with a lot of CPGs now being sold online, consumers care more about price and quality/quantity than size and shape....
- chongli 8y ago
  Marketing is zero sum. If we standardize everything, then marketers will find some other way to differentiate themselves. It's not a problem we as a society should give any weight to.
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  Glass bottles had variation, because they had their own deposit/return chain to hang on to their own bottles for reuse. They could afford to use them as unique branding too. If they were getting Pepsi or Irn Bru bottles back, or no bottle back, it wouldn't work. Now, a bottle of Coke is identical to a bottle of Pepsi, Irn Bru or cheapest own label, except for the label, colour of contents and cap. Just a standard, almost generic, 2l or 500ml bottle. Do they even sell glass Cokes any more? I can't remember the last time I saw one. Beer still comes in glass, so there's far more variation. Deposits are no more. Reuse is no more. Can't be that powerful in differentiating or marketing in comparison to saving a penny or two using generic plastic.
  - vel0city 8y ago
    While 2L bottles are roughly standardized in most markets, other commonly found bottle sizes are not as standard. A 20oz bottle of Coke looks extremely different from a 20oz bottle of Pepsi. And yes, Coca-Cola still sells Coke in glass bottles in many markets.

close04 8y ago

Size and shape are powerful differentiators in marketing. Just think of how recognizable is a bottle of Coke compared to a generic soda. With the money most companies invest(ed) in this they will be very reluctant to go to a standardized model soon. But I guess eventually efficiency will win.

CamTin 8y ago
On the other hand, many container types are already de facto standardized: the lid of the pint of the cottage cheese and the quart of yogurt in my fridge right now, for example, are interchangeable even though they're from totally different dairies. Milk jugs and cartons are standardized. Cereal boxes, most pop bottles. Instant noodle bricks. The list isn't as long as the list of all possible products, but there are clearly benefits to standardization even in the absence of legislation mandating it.
- anticensor 8y ago
  There are only a handful of carton providers in the world (TetraPak is leading in carton in Europe, for example). Everyone uses or clones their machinery and designs.
  - CamTin 8y ago
    Right, the point being that even absent the requirement to do so, dairies have figured out that it's cheaper/better to all use the same packaging.
nslav 8y ago
Standardizing size and shape across brands does not appear to bother soda companies when they are packaging their product in cans. It doesn't seem unreasonable to require them to do the same for bottles in order to avoid mountains of plastic waste.
- 1zee 8y ago
  just ban plastic bottles.... cans work just fine.
  - AstralStorm 8y ago
    Whole cans are easy to recycle, but doing so requires melting the metal back into stock and noxious chemicals to clean the metal. That is all very expensive and environmentally unfriendly compared to potential for reuse of strong bottles. Unless you force a redesign so that cans are reusable. (No more tab - instead a bottle cap, standard shape, no crushing, heavier, thicker, more expensive.)
  - itronitron 8y ago
    I expect that soft drinks could easily be sold in a mini-keg form factor.
    - cr0sh 8y ago
      There exists aluminum bottles - Coke at one time sold their soda in them (I think it was some kind of commemorative edition or something like that). That would have the same benefit as bottles: The ability to drink only part of the contents (like people do with water). The downside is that you can't see what is inside (an important factor for many people when they purchase - especially water).
wool_gather 8y ago
There's the iconic Coke glass bottle, sure, but larger plastic beverage bottles have no discernible differences; same with cans, cardboard cartons, gallon jugs, even, for the most part, glass beer bottles.
- AlgorithmicTime 8y ago
  Plastic coke bottles are a distinctive shape these days.
Symbiote 8y ago
We can ban different shapes, and the company will have to manage without this "differentiator". Soda supplied to bars and restaurants in Denmark is usually in returnable bottles, including Fanta and Sprite (which elsewhere have shaped bottles). Coca Cola has a shape, but perhaps they sell enough to make it worthwhile to sort these from the usual shape. https://www.bevco.dk/vand-og-mixer/sodavand/filter/flaske_type/glasflaske/land/danmark/leverandor/carlsberg-danmark-a-s https://www.bevco.dk/vand-og-mixer/sodavand/filter/flaske_ty... (I drink close to zero soda at home. I know supermarkets sell cans and plastic bottles, both single-use but with a deposit. Possibly they sell the glass ones too. Most Danish beer is sold in a reusable bottle, foreign or microbrew beer just has a deposit but the bottle isn't reused.)
- asdf333 8y ago
  aluminum soda cans are a great example of standardized containers that work right now
  - mrkstu 8y ago
    Did until recently- notice that you can now get regular Diet Coke (and I assume other sodas) in mini cans and the new Diet Coke flavors come in skinny/tall cans only.
    - cr0sh 8y ago
      It's a funny thing - manufacturers of products want to "stand out" from competition - so they use unique shaped containers for their products... ...the same is true for the container companies! The want to stand out from their competition - so they introduce new products (containers) with new shapes or sizes for that purpose. While I am certain that some product manufacturers can dictate or have custom-shaped containers for their brand only, for many they just choose an off-the-shelf version and brand using labeling and/or color. So - while going with standard-sized containers would be great for a whole host of reasons, for the product manufacturers - both for what is being contained, and the containers themselves - it presents a huge loss of profit and market share. I'm not sure what we can do about this; it seems like something that would have to be dictated by government, because I doubt any of the other stakeholders (not even the consumers) will sway the decision toward standardized containers. Soda cans (and for that matter, soup cans) are almost the only examples we have (ok - plastic milk jugs and paper milk cartons?), but as you have noticed, that's starting to fragment (it had already started with beer cans long before).
pxlpshr 8y ago
Size and shape reminds me of the arguement the music industry made about CD packaging and inserts being tangible, value-adds to the listening experience. Turns out, especially with a lot of CPGs now being sold online, consumers care more about price and quality/quantity than size and shape....
chongli 8y ago
Marketing is zero sum. If we standardize everything, then marketers will find some other way to differentiate themselves. It's not a problem we as a society should give any weight to.
NeedMoreTea 8y ago
Glass bottles had variation, because they had their own deposit/return chain to hang on to their own bottles for reuse. They could afford to use them as unique branding too. If they were getting Pepsi or Irn Bru bottles back, or no bottle back, it wouldn't work. Now, a bottle of Coke is identical to a bottle of Pepsi, Irn Bru or cheapest own label, except for the label, colour of contents and cap. Just a standard, almost generic, 2l or 500ml bottle. Do they even sell glass Cokes any more? I can't remember the last time I saw one. Beer still comes in glass, so there's far more variation. Deposits are no more. Reuse is no more. Can't be that powerful in differentiating or marketing in comparison to saving a penny or two using generic plastic.
- vel0city 8y ago
  While 2L bottles are roughly standardized in most markets, other commonly found bottle sizes are not as standard. A 20oz bottle of Coke looks extremely different from a 20oz bottle of Pepsi. And yes, Coca-Cola still sells Coke in glass bottles in many markets.