7 ms·

I've always wondered why there couldn't be standard containers for products like jam, wine, butter etc. where the containers are designed to be easily washed an

I've always wondered why there couldn't be standard containers for products like jam, wine, butter etc. where the containers are designed to be easily washed and reused. Manufacturers could still create their own branded containers but would pay more somehow for doing so. Is there an obvious problem with this idea? It's nuts that if you buy e.g. 4 bottles of wine they all have different bottle designs and if you optionally go through the effort of recycling them there might be some process involved where they're sent to another country, broken down, melted and then reformed it into new bottles at best. Just wash and reuse the bottle...?

rootusrootus 8y ago
We used to do that with soda bottles. I think some places still do.
- dTal 8y ago
  It was also standard with glass milk bottles, in the UK at least.
  - abrugsch 8y ago
    UK glass milk deliveries still exist. We have milk delivered 3 times per week. (that's the cadence of the milk company, not our choosing) and until recently within last 6 months ish) ALL quantities were delivered an 1pt returnable glass bottles. now they deliver typical 2pt and 2L PET containers which is handy for the fridge but if you order a 1pt you still get glass (and sometimes multiples if they have a supply chain issue like when they changed recently from 4pt to 2L for the same cost :/ )
smt88 8y ago
Some places have local "zero-waste" grocery stores that sell everything in reusable containers that you return when you come back to the store. For people who don't live in those places, a few online retailers like Loop are trying to fill the gap[1]. 1. https://cleantechnica.com/2019/02/19/loop-to-launch-zero-waste-delivery-service-in-new-york-this-spring/ https://cleantechnica.com/2019/02/19/loop-to-launch-zero-was...
ortusdux 8y ago
Oregon has a beer bottle reuse program. They aim for 40 uses per bottle. Apparently oregon's bottle law is unique because it put the beverage industry in charge of deposits and collection. https://www.opb.org/news/article/oregon-craft-beer-refillable-bottles/ https://www.opb.org/news/article/oregon-craft-beer-refillabl...
- aaronmiler 8y ago
  I run a Hard Cider company in OR. We (the beverage industry/my company) are only in practice responsible for deposits. While we are required to take collections, no consumers really returns them to us. The return burden often falls on the retailers, who collect deposit directly from consumers. When we sell product to a retail store. We collect a 10¢ deposit per can from them. The retailer then collects a 10¢ deposit from the customer. My company gives all our collected deposits to a co-op (which is state run I believe) who handle the collection/recycling of the containers. I interact with our bottle bill on a pretty small scale, but I believe that only changes my reporting frequency.
basch 8y ago
It's been proposed, and is being worked on. http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/reusable-packaging-loop/ http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/reusable-packagin... Also, beer bottles.
- Eric_WVGG 8y ago
  Here's another look at Loop with some more products: https://www.fastcompany.com/90296956/a-coalition-of-giant-brands-is-about-to-change-how-we-shop-forever-with-a-new-zero-waste-platform https://www.fastcompany.com/90296956/a-coalition-of-giant-br... and a bit on Oregon's new "reusable beer bottle" for local craft brewers. difficult to pull off on American nat'l for the usual reasons… https://www.fastcompany.com/90239092/this-reusable-beer-bottle-could-change-the-way-america-drinks https://www.fastcompany.com/90239092/this-reusable-beer-bott... Personally, I would 100% change my shopping habits around brands that adopted standards like this.
CydeWeys 8y ago
This is commonly done with bottled water in many European countries. You see stacks of formed plastic holders for the bottles in the back. As bottles get drunk, the empties are placed back into the holders, and the company servicing the restaurant comes frequently and swaps out the empties for full ones. You can tell the bottles are reused a lot because they have pretty substantial wear marks on their sides where they rub against the holders. And yeah, it'd be great if the same kind of system were extended to more products in the US. It'd be awesome if we could standardize on containers of, e.g., size 50mL, 100mL, 200mL, 500mL, 1 L, both for liquid and solid goods, and just have everything be sold in those. Then you'd just recycle those containers as normal, and instead of being broken down and remade, they'd simply be washed and reused.
- derefr 8y ago
  It’s not done for small bottled water in the US, but it is done for multi-gallon “water bottles”, i.e. the things you use with a water cooler. Mostly you’re not returning them, though (although you can return them); you’re just reusing the ones you own. I feel like that might be a more sustainable system: a grocery store where everything is shipped to the store and held in large bulk containers (which can be reused between the store and the supplier), and then, when purchased (through a deli counter or machines), some of the contents of the large container are transferred to fill up a small reusable plastic container you’ve brought from home. (Either by plugging it into the vending machine—like with refillable water jugs—or by handing it to the deli clerk to fill. Or, in the case of bulk bins, just filling your containers yourself, and then weighing them at the self-checkout. [That presumes each container has some sort of standardized tare code on it you can scan so that you don’t have to weigh every container empty when you first come in.])
  - zitterbewegung 8y ago
    I never see water coolers anymore I just see water purifiers everywhere .
  - yorwba 8y ago
    Such grocery stores exist: https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2014/sep/16/berlin-duo-supermarket-no-packaging-food-waste https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2014/sep/16...
jbay808 8y ago
I really think this is one place where standards could be transformative for society. Not only the obvious benefits, but standardized bottle shapes allow manufacturers of, say, refrigerators and furniture to tailor their wine racks/dairy drawers/etc to fit the standard product packages perfectly. This gets you more room in your fridge, and your living room... And then places like Amazon can tailor their boxes to perfectly fit the products too. I noticed this when I went into a Japanese bookstore and saw that all the books were the same shape, even from different publishers, and the bookshelves were perfectly sized to fit them. I don't know what kind of power brought that about (small homes?), but compared to a North American bookstore where it seems every book is fighting to be a different size and shape, to stick out from the shelf and stand taller than its neighbours.
- close04 8y ago
  Size and shape are powerful differentiators in marketing. Just think of how recognizable is a bottle of Coke compared to a generic soda. With the money most companies invest(ed) in this they will be very reluctant to go to a standardized model soon. But I guess eventually efficiency will win.
  - CamTin 8y ago
    On the other hand, many container types are already de facto standardized: the lid of the pint of the cottage cheese and the quart of yogurt in my fridge right now, for example, are interchangeable even though they're from totally different dairies. Milk jugs and cartons are standardized. Cereal boxes, most pop bottles. Instant noodle bricks. The list isn't as long as the list of all possible products, but there are clearly benefits to standardization even in the absence of legislation mandating it.
    - anticensor 8y ago
      There are only a handful of carton providers in the world (TetraPak is leading in carton in Europe, for example). Everyone uses or clones their machinery and designs.
jahewson 8y ago
The Soviet Union did this. People used mayonnaise jars for everything and carried them around wherever they went.
drawkbox 8y ago
Add to that, more bottled water should be in actual glass bottles not plastic. Make it more recyclable like beer bottles or old school Coke bottles. Aluminum and glass are better for recycling than plastic, if the cost is higher so be it, doesn't stop people from buying beer bottles.
- fixvzbdjzis 8y ago
  Well glass tastes better, so sure. But the benefits are not obvious. If we assume diesel as a substitute good for plastic [1] then the additional weight of transporting glass could cause more waste (by burning additional diesel) So, if a commmunity doesn’t have a local wash and refill center, it’s not obvious that plastic wins. [1] you can make diesel from plastic (not easy, but probably easier than recycling mixed plastic). Assuming the plastic will go to the oceans otherwise, that’s a pretty good thing to do since diesel will get burned anyway and plastic is diverted from the seas.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
thatfrenchguy 8y ago
My parents had this in the late 60s-70s in the country-side. It disappeared in the mid-70s/end-70s.
- r00fus 8y ago
  With the advent of plastic no doubt. The plastic/petroleum economy (parodied in Superman3) killed off many more sustainable (wood/glass/metal) programs, as they allowed more consumption with all externalities ignored. Now we're paying the price. I'm at the point where I've started to change my purchase habits to avoid packaging in general. This means more veggies and paper-packed meat and less frozen. Adding costs to dispose of plastic waste (preferably at the storefront) would greatly improve options.
gwbas1c 8y ago
Go find a small local dairy (in the US.) There's a good chance they wash and re-use the bottles. The deposit might be greater than the cost of the milk. I vaguely remember buying a bottle of milk once at Whole Foods and needing to return the bottle for my deposit. In the 1990s, I had an after school job at a local dairy that was loosing a ton of money on their bottles because they didn't charge a deposit, and many customers didn't understand that we needed them back. We had a giant machine to wash all the bottles.
paganel 8y ago
> I've always wondered why there couldn't be standard containers for products like jam, wine, butter etc. where the containers are designed to be easily washed and reused. This used to be the case in my country back when I was a kid and when we were still under (nominal) communist rule. Almost no jars or bottles were thrown out after use because that would have been similar to literally throwing money away, what was usually happening was that our parents would send us, kids, with a bag of empty milk bottles and jam jars to the closest general store and we would receive some money in return for said bottles and jars (not much of a sum, I agree, but it was better than nothing).
URSpider94 8y ago
Here’s a first step: https://www.environmentalleader.com/2019/01/terracycle-circular-delivery-loop/ https://www.environmentalleader.com/2019/01/terracycle-circu...

rootusrootus 8y ago

We used to do that with soda bottles. I think some places still do.

dTal 8y ago
It was also standard with glass milk bottles, in the UK at least.
- abrugsch 8y ago
  UK glass milk deliveries still exist. We have milk delivered 3 times per week. (that's the cadence of the milk company, not our choosing) and until recently within last 6 months ish) ALL quantities were delivered an 1pt returnable glass bottles. now they deliver typical 2pt and 2L PET containers which is handy for the fridge but if you order a 1pt you still get glass (and sometimes multiples if they have a supply chain issue like when they changed recently from 4pt to 2L for the same cost :/ )

smt88 8y ago

Some places have local "zero-waste" grocery stores that sell everything in reusable containers that you return when you come back to the store. For people who don't live in those places, a few online retailers like Loop are trying to fill the gap[1]. 1. https://cleantechnica.com/2019/02/19/loop-to-launch-zero-waste-delivery-service-in-new-york-this-spring/ https://cleantechnica.com/2019/02/19/loop-to-launch-zero-was...

ortusdux 8y ago

Oregon has a beer bottle reuse program. They aim for 40 uses per bottle. Apparently oregon's bottle law is unique because it put the beverage industry in charge of deposits and collection. https://www.opb.org/news/article/oregon-craft-beer-refillable-bottles/ https://www.opb.org/news/article/oregon-craft-beer-refillabl...

aaronmiler 8y ago
I run a Hard Cider company in OR. We (the beverage industry/my company) are only in practice responsible for deposits. While we are required to take collections, no consumers really returns them to us. The return burden often falls on the retailers, who collect deposit directly from consumers. When we sell product to a retail store. We collect a 10¢ deposit per can from them. The retailer then collects a 10¢ deposit from the customer. My company gives all our collected deposits to a co-op (which is state run I believe) who handle the collection/recycling of the containers. I interact with our bottle bill on a pretty small scale, but I believe that only changes my reporting frequency.

basch 8y ago

It's been proposed, and is being worked on. http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/reusable-packaging-loop/ http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/reusable-packagin... Also, beer bottles.

Eric_WVGG 8y ago
Here's another look at Loop with some more products: https://www.fastcompany.com/90296956/a-coalition-of-giant-brands-is-about-to-change-how-we-shop-forever-with-a-new-zero-waste-platform https://www.fastcompany.com/90296956/a-coalition-of-giant-br... and a bit on Oregon's new "reusable beer bottle" for local craft brewers. difficult to pull off on American nat'l for the usual reasons… https://www.fastcompany.com/90239092/this-reusable-beer-bottle-could-change-the-way-america-drinks https://www.fastcompany.com/90239092/this-reusable-beer-bott... Personally, I would 100% change my shopping habits around brands that adopted standards like this.

CydeWeys 8y ago

This is commonly done with bottled water in many European countries. You see stacks of formed plastic holders for the bottles in the back. As bottles get drunk, the empties are placed back into the holders, and the company servicing the restaurant comes frequently and swaps out the empties for full ones. You can tell the bottles are reused a lot because they have pretty substantial wear marks on their sides where they rub against the holders. And yeah, it'd be great if the same kind of system were extended to more products in the US. It'd be awesome if we could standardize on containers of, e.g., size 50mL, 100mL, 200mL, 500mL, 1 L, both for liquid and solid goods, and just have everything be sold in those. Then you'd just recycle those containers as normal, and instead of being broken down and remade, they'd simply be washed and reused.

derefr 8y ago
It’s not done for small bottled water in the US, but it is done for multi-gallon “water bottles”, i.e. the things you use with a water cooler. Mostly you’re not returning them, though (although you can return them); you’re just reusing the ones you own. I feel like that might be a more sustainable system: a grocery store where everything is shipped to the store and held in large bulk containers (which can be reused between the store and the supplier), and then, when purchased (through a deli counter or machines), some of the contents of the large container are transferred to fill up a small reusable plastic container you’ve brought from home. (Either by plugging it into the vending machine—like with refillable water jugs—or by handing it to the deli clerk to fill. Or, in the case of bulk bins, just filling your containers yourself, and then weighing them at the self-checkout. [That presumes each container has some sort of standardized tare code on it you can scan so that you don’t have to weigh every container empty when you first come in.])
- zitterbewegung 8y ago
  I never see water coolers anymore I just see water purifiers everywhere .
- yorwba 8y ago
  Such grocery stores exist: https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2014/sep/16/berlin-duo-supermarket-no-packaging-food-waste https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2014/sep/16...

jbay808 8y ago

I really think this is one place where standards could be transformative for society. Not only the obvious benefits, but standardized bottle shapes allow manufacturers of, say, refrigerators and furniture to tailor their wine racks/dairy drawers/etc to fit the standard product packages perfectly. This gets you more room in your fridge, and your living room... And then places like Amazon can tailor their boxes to perfectly fit the products too. I noticed this when I went into a Japanese bookstore and saw that all the books were the same shape, even from different publishers, and the bookshelves were perfectly sized to fit them. I don't know what kind of power brought that about (small homes?), but compared to a North American bookstore where it seems every book is fighting to be a different size and shape, to stick out from the shelf and stand taller than its neighbours.

close04 8y ago
Size and shape are powerful differentiators in marketing. Just think of how recognizable is a bottle of Coke compared to a generic soda. With the money most companies invest(ed) in this they will be very reluctant to go to a standardized model soon. But I guess eventually efficiency will win.
- CamTin 8y ago
  On the other hand, many container types are already de facto standardized: the lid of the pint of the cottage cheese and the quart of yogurt in my fridge right now, for example, are interchangeable even though they're from totally different dairies. Milk jugs and cartons are standardized. Cereal boxes, most pop bottles. Instant noodle bricks. The list isn't as long as the list of all possible products, but there are clearly benefits to standardization even in the absence of legislation mandating it.
  - anticensor 8y ago
    There are only a handful of carton providers in the world (TetraPak is leading in carton in Europe, for example). Everyone uses or clones their machinery and designs.

jahewson 8y ago

The Soviet Union did this. People used mayonnaise jars for everything and carried them around wherever they went.

drawkbox 8y ago

Add to that, more bottled water should be in actual glass bottles not plastic. Make it more recyclable like beer bottles or old school Coke bottles. Aluminum and glass are better for recycling than plastic, if the cost is higher so be it, doesn't stop people from buying beer bottles.

fixvzbdjzis 8y ago
Well glass tastes better, so sure. But the benefits are not obvious. If we assume diesel as a substitute good for plastic [1] then the additional weight of transporting glass could cause more waste (by burning additional diesel) So, if a commmunity doesn’t have a local wash and refill center, it’s not obvious that plastic wins. [1] you can make diesel from plastic (not easy, but probably easier than recycling mixed plastic). Assuming the plastic will go to the oceans otherwise, that’s a pretty good thing to do since diesel will get burned anyway and plastic is diverted from the seas.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

thatfrenchguy 8y ago

My parents had this in the late 60s-70s in the country-side. It disappeared in the mid-70s/end-70s.

r00fus 8y ago
With the advent of plastic no doubt. The plastic/petroleum economy (parodied in Superman3) killed off many more sustainable (wood/glass/metal) programs, as they allowed more consumption with all externalities ignored. Now we're paying the price. I'm at the point where I've started to change my purchase habits to avoid packaging in general. This means more veggies and paper-packed meat and less frozen. Adding costs to dispose of plastic waste (preferably at the storefront) would greatly improve options.

gwbas1c 8y ago

Go find a small local dairy (in the US.) There's a good chance they wash and re-use the bottles. The deposit might be greater than the cost of the milk. I vaguely remember buying a bottle of milk once at Whole Foods and needing to return the bottle for my deposit. In the 1990s, I had an after school job at a local dairy that was loosing a ton of money on their bottles because they didn't charge a deposit, and many customers didn't understand that we needed them back. We had a giant machine to wash all the bottles.

paganel 8y ago

> I've always wondered why there couldn't be standard containers for products like jam, wine, butter etc. where the containers are designed to be easily washed and reused. This used to be the case in my country back when I was a kid and when we were still under (nominal) communist rule. Almost no jars or bottles were thrown out after use because that would have been similar to literally throwing money away, what was usually happening was that our parents would send us, kids, with a bag of empty milk bottles and jam jars to the closest general store and we would receive some money in return for said bottles and jars (not much of a sum, I agree, but it was better than nothing).

URSpider94 8y ago

Here’s a first step: https://www.environmentalleader.com/2019/01/terracycle-circular-delivery-loop/ https://www.environmentalleader.com/2019/01/terracycle-circu...