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> great K8S API, that Swarm lacks Hmm... nothing against k8s, but it’s deployment api is an abomination on par with aws cloudformation. You need teams of yaml

> great K8S API, that Swarm lacks Hmm... nothing against k8s, but it’s deployment api is an abomination on par with aws cloudformation. You need teams of yaml engineers to manage these things.

newaccoutnas 8y ago
I think that's the first time I've seen anyone advocate cloudformation above anything.
- pritambaral 8y ago
  I cannot read what your parent says as an advocation for cloudformation, let alone above anything; only that sth is as bad as cloudformation.
013a 8y ago
https://twitter.com/kelseyhightower/status/935252923721793536 https://twitter.com/kelseyhightower/status/93525292372179353... That's the exact problem Rancher itself is trying to solve, and it does a pretty fantastic job at it. Though suggesting its "on par" with CloudFormation suggests that you either know a ton about CloudFormation (anything becomes second nature if you're skilled in it) or you don't know much about either of them. Kubernetes isn't that bad.
- pcr0 8y ago
  It's definitely bad when you have thousands of lines of YAML configuration to maintain. On the other hand, a thought out declarative language like Hashicorp's HCL is much saner thanks to IDE code completion/refactoring and static typing.
  - pas 8y ago
    K8s YMLs are the baseline, and there are projects to have a lot more ergonomic description interface. They are ugly because they are also static typed and very extensible. YAML is 1-1 mappable to HCL - because both map to JSON, but the Hashicorp interface seems nicer because it's simpler.
Intermernet 8y ago
Is YAML engineer a real thing? I always considered YAML to be a slightly hacky configuration DSL that I needed to be familiar with, not an actual core, career, competence. For example, can I become an INI engineer?
- pas 8y ago
  I think that's the joke :) Of course k8s's YAML API is just a clunky interface, because it's evolving very rapidly, and it's a rather low-level thing. So basically if you work a lot with k8s, it seems like all you do all day is to copy paste [or generate, or parse] YAMLs.
pas 8y ago
The syntax is ugly, the features are amazing. And it's easy to abstract over ugly syntax, but it's hard to work around Swarm's missing features.

> great K8S API, that Swarm lacks Hmm... nothing against k8s, but it’s deployment api is an abomination on par with aws cloudformation. You need teams of yaml engineers to manage these things.

newaccoutnas 8y ago

I think that's the first time I've seen anyone advocate cloudformation above anything.

pritambaral 8y ago
I cannot read what your parent says as an advocation for cloudformation, let alone above anything; only that sth is as bad as cloudformation.

013a 8y ago

https://twitter.com/kelseyhightower/status/935252923721793536 https://twitter.com/kelseyhightower/status/93525292372179353... That's the exact problem Rancher itself is trying to solve, and it does a pretty fantastic job at it. Though suggesting its "on par" with CloudFormation suggests that you either know a ton about CloudFormation (anything becomes second nature if you're skilled in it) or you don't know much about either of them. Kubernetes isn't that bad.

pcr0 8y ago
It's definitely bad when you have thousands of lines of YAML configuration to maintain. On the other hand, a thought out declarative language like Hashicorp's HCL is much saner thanks to IDE code completion/refactoring and static typing.
- pas 8y ago
  K8s YMLs are the baseline, and there are projects to have a lot more ergonomic description interface. They are ugly because they are also static typed and very extensible. YAML is 1-1 mappable to HCL - because both map to JSON, but the Hashicorp interface seems nicer because it's simpler.

Intermernet 8y ago

Is YAML engineer a real thing? I always considered YAML to be a slightly hacky configuration DSL that I needed to be familiar with, not an actual core, career, competence. For example, can I become an INI engineer?

pas 8y ago
I think that's the joke :) Of course k8s's YAML API is just a clunky interface, because it's evolving very rapidly, and it's a rather low-level thing. So basically if you work a lot with k8s, it seems like all you do all day is to copy paste [or generate, or parse] YAMLs.

pas 8y ago

The syntax is ugly, the features are amazing. And it's easy to abstract over ugly syntax, but it's hard to work around Swarm's missing features.