4 ms·

I don't like the false equivalence of what the US-lead western intelligence does and what the Chinese state does. Obviously in a perfect world none of the "bad

I don't like the false equivalence of what the US-lead western intelligence does and what the Chinese state does. Obviously in a perfect world none of the "bad" things happen, but I'd rather take the US government spying on me than the Chinese government spy on me.

miaklesp 8y ago
> I'd rather take the US government spying on me than the Chinese government spy on me. Not everyone shares your opinion.
- iknowstuff2 8y ago
  Chinese don't randomly & regularly drone attack the people they surviel which is some nice peace of mind.
- OG_BME 8y ago
  If the Uighurs had a voice, I think they might have something to say about that[1]. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/china-has-turned-xinjiang-into-a-zone-of-repression--and-a-frightening-window-into-the-future/2019/02/23/780092fe-353f-11e9-854a-7a14d7fec96a_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/chin...
  - YUMad 8y ago
    Cool story bro. Me, just like Uyghurs, would prefer to be spied on by the evil empire which DOESN'T rule me. Uyghurs are ruled by China so they'd rather be spied on by us for sure. I live in Europe so I'm ruled by US, and therefore would prefer China to spy on me.
  - 687u655r 8y ago
    Same with the Iraqis.
ataturk 8y ago
It's not a false equivalance. Yes, China is worse on human rights and they are using technology to enable tyranny. But the US is bugging all these devices and they don't like to be called out on it! I never imagined that in 2019 we would be having this conversation about rogue intelligence agencies that have been so successful in bugging all our tech. The cyberpunks of the '80s lost the argument. We can regain our footing, however. We can demand spy-free, hard-crypto electronics.
majewsky 8y ago
That's sort of like saying "I'd rather be shot in the leg than in the arm".
thraway-burnout 8y ago
True! China has never directly impacted my life or the life of those I love. The US on the other hand has replaced a bunch of democratically-elected governments in South America with dictatorships, taught torture classes to the people who tortured my grandfather in Brazil, and has taken the economical blockade of Venezuela over the course of decades to the current level of a humanitarian crisis and a disintegrated state, to which (surprise!) they'll have to "bring democracy". > I don't like the false equivalence of what the US-lead western intelligence does and what the Chinese state does. I agree, it's a false equivalence. The effects of US-lead western intelligence actions are objectively more perverse.
- lern_too_spel 8y ago
  The US is going to do that with or without intelligence. China is going to steal your trade secrets and destroy your economy and can only do that with access to your computer networks.
687u655r 8y ago
Social Credit Kill List > In 2014, former CIA and NSA director Michael Hayden said in a public debate, “We kill people based on metadata.” > According to multiple reports and leaks, death-by-metadata could be triggered, without even knowing the target’s name, if too many derogatory checks appear on their profile. “Armed military aged males” exhibiting suspicious behavior in the wrong place can become targets, as can someone “seen to be giving out orders.” Such mathematics-based assassinations have come to be known as “signature strikes.” https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/how-to-survive-americas-kill-list-699334/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/how-...
rchaud 8y ago
> I don't like the false equivalence of what the US-lead western intelligence does and what the Chinese state does. But it's a point that will continue to be made as long as the US diplomats continue to use Cold War cliches to describe the "enemy" while back-patting the US as a global sentinel for liberal values and human rights. The USSR couldn't have dreamed of the kind of mass surveillance apparatus the US has.
- Fins 8y ago
  Nah, USSR would just lock people up even without any proof of anything. But they certainly would've dreamed of it.

miaklesp 8y ago

> I'd rather take the US government spying on me than the Chinese government spy on me. Not everyone shares your opinion.

iknowstuff2 8y ago
Chinese don't randomly & regularly drone attack the people they surviel which is some nice peace of mind.
OG_BME 8y ago
If the Uighurs had a voice, I think they might have something to say about that[1]. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/china-has-turned-xinjiang-into-a-zone-of-repression--and-a-frightening-window-into-the-future/2019/02/23/780092fe-353f-11e9-854a-7a14d7fec96a_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/chin...
- YUMad 8y ago
  Cool story bro. Me, just like Uyghurs, would prefer to be spied on by the evil empire which DOESN'T rule me. Uyghurs are ruled by China so they'd rather be spied on by us for sure. I live in Europe so I'm ruled by US, and therefore would prefer China to spy on me.
- 687u655r 8y ago
  Same with the Iraqis.

ataturk 8y ago

It's not a false equivalance. Yes, China is worse on human rights and they are using technology to enable tyranny. But the US is bugging all these devices and they don't like to be called out on it! I never imagined that in 2019 we would be having this conversation about rogue intelligence agencies that have been so successful in bugging all our tech. The cyberpunks of the '80s lost the argument. We can regain our footing, however. We can demand spy-free, hard-crypto electronics.

majewsky 8y ago

That's sort of like saying "I'd rather be shot in the leg than in the arm".

thraway-burnout 8y ago

True! China has never directly impacted my life or the life of those I love. The US on the other hand has replaced a bunch of democratically-elected governments in South America with dictatorships, taught torture classes to the people who tortured my grandfather in Brazil, and has taken the economical blockade of Venezuela over the course of decades to the current level of a humanitarian crisis and a disintegrated state, to which (surprise!) they'll have to "bring democracy". > I don't like the false equivalence of what the US-lead western intelligence does and what the Chinese state does. I agree, it's a false equivalence. The effects of US-lead western intelligence actions are objectively more perverse.

lern_too_spel 8y ago
The US is going to do that with or without intelligence. China is going to steal your trade secrets and destroy your economy and can only do that with access to your computer networks.

687u655r 8y ago

Social Credit Kill List > In 2014, former CIA and NSA director Michael Hayden said in a public debate, “We kill people based on metadata.” > According to multiple reports and leaks, death-by-metadata could be triggered, without even knowing the target’s name, if too many derogatory checks appear on their profile. “Armed military aged males” exhibiting suspicious behavior in the wrong place can become targets, as can someone “seen to be giving out orders.” Such mathematics-based assassinations have come to be known as “signature strikes.” https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/how-to-survive-americas-kill-list-699334/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/how-...

rchaud 8y ago

> I don't like the false equivalence of what the US-lead western intelligence does and what the Chinese state does. But it's a point that will continue to be made as long as the US diplomats continue to use Cold War cliches to describe the "enemy" while back-patting the US as a global sentinel for liberal values and human rights. The USSR couldn't have dreamed of the kind of mass surveillance apparatus the US has.

Fins 8y ago
Nah, USSR would just lock people up even without any proof of anything. But they certainly would've dreamed of it.