4 ms·

What about the million Uighurs in Chinese concentration camps? The scale of state crimes are vastly different here.

pishpash 8y ago
What about the hundred thousand Japanese American internees in American concentration camps? I don't think the scale is that different, normalized by population and stage of development.
- jorblumesea 8y ago
  That was almost 80 years ago, whereas China is doing this today. Past US actions don't somehow invalidate current complaints about massive human rights violations by the CCP. This is purely whataboutism.
  - pishpash 8y ago
    I have no interest in pointing out current US atrocities around the world; there are many. Does any US action past or present invalidate anything? No. But it does make your words overall worthless and hypocritical. As they say, clean your own house first. It's energy better spent.
    - jorblumesea 8y ago
      No. We should be critical of human rights violations of every country, at every point in time. Past US violations are not some kind of excuse to allow China to put millions of people in concentration camps. This is a fallacious argument, the tu quoque logical fallacy.
  - chrischen 8y ago
    The issue isn't that China is doing bad things, it's that as someone who is not in China sitting in probably an armchair, providing opinions and guidance across the world is a terrible way to provide well-thought out political advice. One should stick to where they have legitimacy, and that's usually in their local politics. As a non-black person, it'd be like me criticizing black people for things they do. Since I cannot truly understand the black experience in America without being a black person, any criticism I levy against them would be wholly unfair.
    - claplouder 8y ago
      Huh? This sounds a lot like CCP arguments. Don't meddle in our affairs and tell us what to do. Problem is that China is practicing economic colonialism in Africa as we speak and sabotaging and stealing tech from western corporations and govts at an unprecedented rate. Fortunately, the world is starting to wake up to the Chinese thuggery. China's days of breaking international law unpunitively are numbered.
      - chrischen 8y ago
        Really no point arguing against this. My point is that Africa, China, can handle themselves for their own business dealings and don't need Americans (myself included) to protect them. Anything else is propaganda, meddling, whatever you want to call it.
        claplouder 8y ago
        It's not as simple as that. China has already debt-trapped Sri Lanka into giving up a port and is eyeing other African nations as it projects its navy across the Indian ocean trying to threaten India. Maybe the corrupt African leaders can give up African interests to China and it's their business, but Chinese interest obviously doesn't end there. Hence, it is, and should be of concern to all the other national interests in the area and globally. Sorry, China will not be allowed to do as they please considering their track record.
        iknowstuff2 8y ago
        China hasn't debt trapped Sri Lanka with loans anymore than the World Bank would... How are the Chinese going to pickup the highways, bridges, harbors & railways and take them back to China if the debt is renneged on? Your cynical view of China should be applied to the US mining companies that reaked havoc in the Congo and similar actions the US has taken in the rest Africa (Libya was quite a prosperous nation with free education but now has a thriving slave market) without the benefit of leaving behind useful infrastructure.
    - 8y ago
  - doktrin 8y ago
    The fact that this comment was downvoted is ... interesting.
- djohnston 8y ago
  well, for one we don't deny it happened
pjc50 8y ago
How many separated Latino children are in indefinite detention these days?
- uodtl 8y ago
  It's not the same because Uyghurs were peacefully in their lands while Latinos were caught red-handed invading a country.
  - iknowstuff2 8y ago
    Peaceful? Weren't they being radicalized and committing acts of terror including running over people with cars similar to the attack in Nice, France?
- jorblumesea 8y ago
  That makes it okay then? Because the US does shady stuff, that means China is okay to do what they want? Putting millions of your own citizens in a concentration camp is a crime on the scale of nothing currently seen in the modern world. Excusing China's human rights violations because the US actions are whataboutism and is a completely bullshit argument.
  - pjc50 8y ago
    No, it makes neither side OK. And failing to do anything about it in the side under democratic control makes it harder to do elsewhere.
687u655r 8y ago
Is it better or worse than the million dead Iraqis?

What about the hundred thousand Japanese American internees in American concentration camps? I don't think the scale is that different, normalized by population and stage of development.

jorblumesea 8y ago
That was almost 80 years ago, whereas China is doing this today. Past US actions don't somehow invalidate current complaints about massive human rights violations by the CCP. This is purely whataboutism.
- pishpash 8y ago
  I have no interest in pointing out current US atrocities around the world; there are many. Does any US action past or present invalidate anything? No. But it does make your words overall worthless and hypocritical. As they say, clean your own house first. It's energy better spent.
  - jorblumesea 8y ago
    No. We should be critical of human rights violations of every country, at every point in time. Past US violations are not some kind of excuse to allow China to put millions of people in concentration camps. This is a fallacious argument, the tu quoque logical fallacy.
- chrischen 8y ago
  The issue isn't that China is doing bad things, it's that as someone who is not in China sitting in probably an armchair, providing opinions and guidance across the world is a terrible way to provide well-thought out political advice. One should stick to where they have legitimacy, and that's usually in their local politics. As a non-black person, it'd be like me criticizing black people for things they do. Since I cannot truly understand the black experience in America without being a black person, any criticism I levy against them would be wholly unfair.
  - claplouder 8y ago
    Huh? This sounds a lot like CCP arguments. Don't meddle in our affairs and tell us what to do. Problem is that China is practicing economic colonialism in Africa as we speak and sabotaging and stealing tech from western corporations and govts at an unprecedented rate. Fortunately, the world is starting to wake up to the Chinese thuggery. China's days of breaking international law unpunitively are numbered.
    - chrischen 8y ago
      Really no point arguing against this. My point is that Africa, China, can handle themselves for their own business dealings and don't need Americans (myself included) to protect them. Anything else is propaganda, meddling, whatever you want to call it.
      - claplouder 8y ago
        It's not as simple as that. China has already debt-trapped Sri Lanka into giving up a port and is eyeing other African nations as it projects its navy across the Indian ocean trying to threaten India. Maybe the corrupt African leaders can give up African interests to China and it's their business, but Chinese interest obviously doesn't end there. Hence, it is, and should be of concern to all the other national interests in the area and globally. Sorry, China will not be allowed to do as they please considering their track record.
        iknowstuff2 8y ago
        China hasn't debt trapped Sri Lanka with loans anymore than the World Bank would... How are the Chinese going to pickup the highways, bridges, harbors & railways and take them back to China if the debt is renneged on? Your cynical view of China should be applied to the US mining companies that reaked havoc in the Congo and similar actions the US has taken in the rest Africa (Libya was quite a prosperous nation with free education but now has a thriving slave market) without the benefit of leaving behind useful infrastructure.
  - 8y ago
- doktrin 8y ago
  The fact that this comment was downvoted is ... interesting.
djohnston 8y ago
well, for one we don't deny it happened

pjc50 8y ago

How many separated Latino children are in indefinite detention these days?

uodtl 8y ago
It's not the same because Uyghurs were peacefully in their lands while Latinos were caught red-handed invading a country.
- iknowstuff2 8y ago
  Peaceful? Weren't they being radicalized and committing acts of terror including running over people with cars similar to the attack in Nice, France?
jorblumesea 8y ago
That makes it okay then? Because the US does shady stuff, that means China is okay to do what they want? Putting millions of your own citizens in a concentration camp is a crime on the scale of nothing currently seen in the modern world. Excusing China's human rights violations because the US actions are whataboutism and is a completely bullshit argument.
- pjc50 8y ago
  No, it makes neither side OK. And failing to do anything about it in the side under democratic control makes it harder to do elsewhere.

687u655r 8y ago

Is it better or worse than the million dead Iraqis?