6 ms·

Instead of getting rid of the keyboard, mouse and standard 2D display, why not start with augmenting the reality around those? Keep the keyboard, keep the mouse

by kgwxd 8y ago

Instead of getting rid of the keyboard, mouse and standard 2D display, why not start with augmenting the reality around those? Keep the keyboard, keep the mouse, keep the high-speed, high-definition display, there's nothing more efficient. Touchscreens don't even come close to matching that combo in any domain, let alone exceeding it. What chance do laggier, less touchable figments have? If you can't find something that augments that reality for the better, it's time to move on.

partiallypro 8y ago
Perhaps this could work for some, but for front line workers (the target of Hololens) it absolutely would not. The entire current mission of Hololens is to empower front line workers that currently have access to no computers at all, people that work with their hands and can't have a smart phone, keyboard, monitor, etc right in front of them.
- kgwxd 8y ago
  I see frontline workers use those thing every time I interact with them, far more efficiently than anything real demonstrated in a Hololense video so far. If you're working with your hands, it's very likely you can't afford to have you FOV obstructed by much. For example, I'd freak out if I saw a surgeon wearing one. I'd much rather they be looking at a magnified view, fed to a high-speed 2D display than a laggy 3D approximation of reality.
dgzl 8y ago
Honestly, when I first heard about the Hololense project, I just wanted to be able to code in the ceiling while relaxing.
- sp332 8y ago
  Elevr did some research on VR/AR interaction design, and this is the office they came up with: http://elevr.com/the-office-of-the-future/ http://elevr.com/the-office-of-the-future/
  - TylerE 8y ago
    That looks incredibly dystopian.
    - sp332 8y ago
      More than just the goggles?
      - TylerE 8y ago
        Avatars in VR meetings that match your RW posture
- ehead 8y ago
  You should check out Virtual Desktop with the Oculus Go. It’s astonishing. The Go’s screen is appreciably better than the Rift’s, and the network streaming utility that brings your Windows computer’s screen into the Go is excellent. One thing that was interesting was the zen of using it instead of a monitor - it’s just you and your screen. Nothing else in visible space. With a pair of noise cancelling headphones, I’m convinced that this is the first glimmer of productivity in the commercial space for VR that has wide appeal. I tried it for a fair amount of time and I’m convinced that when the Oculus Quest comes out, I’ll use that instead of a monitor for some of my work.
  - dgzl 8y ago
    Do you feel side effects from over-stimulus of the brain? From my experience with VR, it seems like an hour is about all I can handle before my eyes start hurting. Whereas with AR/MR, I feel like the lack of visual input is better for nausea and strain.
  - Phillips126 8y ago
    I was gifted an Oculus Go for Christmas and typically use it to play games and watch VR YouTube, etc. I've always thought it would be cool to do some of my programming work in a VR space. Just picked up this app to try it out after your review and it does seem pretty neat. What "environment" do you prefer to work in?
calciphus 8y ago
Ever watch a bartender ring up a complex order? That's a domain where touch exceeds keyboard / mouse hands down. Digital art, such as drawing (or even just whiteboarding an idea). There is no one universally great input method.
- CamperBob2 8y ago
  Hard to imagine a more confined problem domain.
- goldfeld 8y ago
  Or a sufficiently complex establishment with a sufficiently trained bartender could do better with keyboard macros. Sure it may be rare but the point is touch interfaces have a complexity limit whereas keyboards and grammars don't.
  - icebraining 8y ago
    How can a touch interface have a complexity limit that a keyboard doesn't? You can literally emulate a regular keyboard on a touch screen.
    - goldfeld 8y ago
      The answer is agility of thought and execution, and that if you emulate a keyboard on a touch interface as its main interaction paradigm it's to all effects a keyboard, but with less tactile feedback thus harder to get agile with.
- flukus 8y ago
  > Ever watch a bartender ring up a complex order? Too many times to count and I'd disagree it's better than a keyboard equivalent. It's easier for new/casual staff and can be easier for visual people but it's awful compared to someone with a bit of training for complex things. They seem to fail at making the complex things achievable for the less trained as well IME. Plastering drink logos on big buttons is easy for some, but for non-visual people and those not familiar with the products it's harder/slower than an alphabetical list or typing the first 2 characters. Want to put something on my account? Good luck with the touch keyboard. Compare those modern touch screen apps to something like a TUI that used to run in the local video shop 30 years ago and there is no comparison in speed and efficiency.
jayd16 8y ago
What's the point if you have a screen in front of you? Why wouldn't you just update the monitor?
- kgwxd 8y ago
  There's definitely room for laggy, non-interactive 3D views in just about everything. Pick anywhere is space to display a clock/calendar you can glance at. Draw with the mouse and keyboard but see it rendered on your desk. Overlay keyboard shortcuts for the new program your learning on your real keyboard. Show a battery level overlay on the cell phone on your desk. Overlay the title of the song currently coming out of the speakers you're looking at. Overlay the estimated calories of the meal you're eating. Animate the solution to the puzzle sitting on the floor.
sp332 8y ago
If your idea is inherently visual or spatial, a keyboard is terrible and a mouse is clumsy. Try signing your name with a mouse. Try doing any of this with a keyboard: http://elevr.com/experimental-still-lifes-and-landscape-interventions/ http://elevr.com/experimental-still-lifes-and-landscape-inte...
- taejavu 8y ago
  Try coding by voice.
  - z3phyr 8y ago
    Programming languages of today are built for text. I will not be surprised if a PL is designed for voice. It can be done
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Alexa, create a module for search with O(n log(n)). :)
      - Shorel 8y ago
        Sounds like an XKCD joke, but something like pip install search-something will probably be trivial and common.
  - hiccuphippo 8y ago
    It might not be as bad as you think: https://www.i-programmer.info/news/99-professional/6263-code-by-voice-faster-than-keyboard.html https://www.i-programmer.info/news/99-professional/6263-code...

by kgwxd 8y ago

partiallypro 8y ago

Perhaps this could work for some, but for front line workers (the target of Hololens) it absolutely would not. The entire current mission of Hololens is to empower front line workers that currently have access to no computers at all, people that work with their hands and can't have a smart phone, keyboard, monitor, etc right in front of them.

kgwxd 8y ago
I see frontline workers use those thing every time I interact with them, far more efficiently than anything real demonstrated in a Hololense video so far. If you're working with your hands, it's very likely you can't afford to have you FOV obstructed by much. For example, I'd freak out if I saw a surgeon wearing one. I'd much rather they be looking at a magnified view, fed to a high-speed 2D display than a laggy 3D approximation of reality.

dgzl 8y ago

Honestly, when I first heard about the Hololense project, I just wanted to be able to code in the ceiling while relaxing.

sp332 8y ago
Elevr did some research on VR/AR interaction design, and this is the office they came up with: http://elevr.com/the-office-of-the-future/ http://elevr.com/the-office-of-the-future/
- TylerE 8y ago
  That looks incredibly dystopian.
  - sp332 8y ago
    More than just the goggles?
    - TylerE 8y ago
      Avatars in VR meetings that match your RW posture
ehead 8y ago
You should check out Virtual Desktop with the Oculus Go. It’s astonishing. The Go’s screen is appreciably better than the Rift’s, and the network streaming utility that brings your Windows computer’s screen into the Go is excellent. One thing that was interesting was the zen of using it instead of a monitor - it’s just you and your screen. Nothing else in visible space. With a pair of noise cancelling headphones, I’m convinced that this is the first glimmer of productivity in the commercial space for VR that has wide appeal. I tried it for a fair amount of time and I’m convinced that when the Oculus Quest comes out, I’ll use that instead of a monitor for some of my work.
- dgzl 8y ago
  Do you feel side effects from over-stimulus of the brain? From my experience with VR, it seems like an hour is about all I can handle before my eyes start hurting. Whereas with AR/MR, I feel like the lack of visual input is better for nausea and strain.
- Phillips126 8y ago
  I was gifted an Oculus Go for Christmas and typically use it to play games and watch VR YouTube, etc. I've always thought it would be cool to do some of my programming work in a VR space. Just picked up this app to try it out after your review and it does seem pretty neat. What "environment" do you prefer to work in?

calciphus 8y ago

Ever watch a bartender ring up a complex order? That's a domain where touch exceeds keyboard / mouse hands down. Digital art, such as drawing (or even just whiteboarding an idea). There is no one universally great input method.

CamperBob2 8y ago
Hard to imagine a more confined problem domain.
goldfeld 8y ago
Or a sufficiently complex establishment with a sufficiently trained bartender could do better with keyboard macros. Sure it may be rare but the point is touch interfaces have a complexity limit whereas keyboards and grammars don't.
- icebraining 8y ago
  How can a touch interface have a complexity limit that a keyboard doesn't? You can literally emulate a regular keyboard on a touch screen.
  - goldfeld 8y ago
    The answer is agility of thought and execution, and that if you emulate a keyboard on a touch interface as its main interaction paradigm it's to all effects a keyboard, but with less tactile feedback thus harder to get agile with.
flukus 8y ago
> Ever watch a bartender ring up a complex order? Too many times to count and I'd disagree it's better than a keyboard equivalent. It's easier for new/casual staff and can be easier for visual people but it's awful compared to someone with a bit of training for complex things. They seem to fail at making the complex things achievable for the less trained as well IME. Plastering drink logos on big buttons is easy for some, but for non-visual people and those not familiar with the products it's harder/slower than an alphabetical list or typing the first 2 characters. Want to put something on my account? Good luck with the touch keyboard. Compare those modern touch screen apps to something like a TUI that used to run in the local video shop 30 years ago and there is no comparison in speed and efficiency.

jayd16 8y ago

What's the point if you have a screen in front of you? Why wouldn't you just update the monitor?

kgwxd 8y ago
There's definitely room for laggy, non-interactive 3D views in just about everything. Pick anywhere is space to display a clock/calendar you can glance at. Draw with the mouse and keyboard but see it rendered on your desk. Overlay keyboard shortcuts for the new program your learning on your real keyboard. Show a battery level overlay on the cell phone on your desk. Overlay the title of the song currently coming out of the speakers you're looking at. Overlay the estimated calories of the meal you're eating. Animate the solution to the puzzle sitting on the floor.

sp332 8y ago

If your idea is inherently visual or spatial, a keyboard is terrible and a mouse is clumsy. Try signing your name with a mouse. Try doing any of this with a keyboard: http://elevr.com/experimental-still-lifes-and-landscape-interventions/ http://elevr.com/experimental-still-lifes-and-landscape-inte...

taejavu 8y ago
Try coding by voice.
- z3phyr 8y ago
  Programming languages of today are built for text. I will not be surprised if a PL is designed for voice. It can be done
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Alexa, create a module for search with O(n log(n)). :)
    - Shorel 8y ago
      Sounds like an XKCD joke, but something like pip install search-something will probably be trivial and common.
- hiccuphippo 8y ago
  It might not be as bad as you think: https://www.i-programmer.info/news/99-professional/6263-code-by-voice-faster-than-keyboard.html https://www.i-programmer.info/news/99-professional/6263-code...