8 ms·

USB-IF has to be doing this to deliberately confuse end users, right? I get that it's a specification number, not a product name, but they have to know that thi

by yssrn 8y ago

USB-IF has to be doing this to deliberately confuse end users, right? I get that it's a specification number, not a product name, but they have to know that this will only cause problems for customers trying to find the appropriate cable. Incredibly, their language usage specifications doc https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/usb_3_2_language_product_and_packaging_guidelines_final.pdf https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/usb_3_2_language_pro... begins with this: > USB-IF emphasizes the importance and value of consistent messaging on USB product packaging, marketing materials, and advertising. Inconsistent use of terminology creates confusion in the marketplace, can be misleading to consumers and potentially diminishes USB-IF’s trademark rights. I simply don't understand USB-IF's motivation to make this so confusing for everyone. Their board consists of Apple, HP, Intel, Microsoft, TI, Renesas, and STMicroelectronics, so it isn't like it's controlled by low end trashy cable manufacturers trying to make a quick buck from confused customers.

mtgx 8y ago
So far all of their moves in regards to USB 3+ and type-c seem to have been to cater to various consumer companies. If we put it in that context, then this new re-branding has to be done for the same reason - so that the same companies can claim to support a "newer" USB standard (and thus a reason for you to upgrade to the new devices), even though nothing has changed.
chrismorgan 8y ago
When quoting, please prefix lines with > instead of using preformatted text: preformatted text for blocks of prose is horribly unusable, everywhere.
- rconti 8y ago
  Unfortunately, HN is so bad at publicizing and making this easy. I spent years assuming others knew some magical tool I didn't, before realizing people just do everything manually and stick to the same unwritten style guide.
  - Wowfunhappy 8y ago
    ...it felt pretty obvious to me? ">" is pretty commonly used, in email for instance.
    - rconti 8y ago
      agreed, I just thought I was missing some hidden feature. Like, I have to do the line breaks myself? I guess?
- tass 8y ago
  Drives me nuts! For everyone on a phone: > USB-IF emphasizes the importance and value of consistent messaging on USB product packaging, marketing materials, and advertising. Inconsistent use of terminology creates confusion in the marketplace, can be misleading to consumers and potentially diminishes USB-IF’s trademark rights.
- yssrn 8y ago
  Apologies, I read the site every day but post so rarely that I forgot that's the consensus way to block quote. Thanks!
- jacobolus 8y ago
  It’s even better to also italicize (using asterisks), e.g.: > USB-IF emphasizes the importance and value of consistent messaging on USB product packaging, marketing materials, and advertising. Inconsistent use of terminology creates confusion in the marketplace, can be misleading to consumers and potentially diminishes USB-IF’s trademark rights. Then at a glance there is a distinction between the comment itself vs. quotations.
geekrax 8y ago
Off topic, but this is how I see your quote btw: https://i.imgur.com/dIFTp4Y.png https://i.imgur.com/dIFTp4Y.png
iClaudiusX 8y ago
The motivation is the same for re-branding 4G-LTE as 5G (or 6G). Sell the same thing with a new name so customers are tricked into thinking you're selling something newer and better based on the spec sheet without context.
- Wowfunhappy 8y ago
  The 5G thing is the carriers's doing, not the standards body.
- imcs 8y ago
  > Sell the same thing with a new name so customers are tricked into thinking you're selling something newer and better This is an argument towards rebranding to NEW USB 4! Which is ironically what we want at this point. There's a deranged lunatic in charge of USB naming that's inconveniencing everyone, including the companies that sell USB devices. Funnily enough corporate interests and user interests should converge on this but for some reason no-one's stopped this chaos yet.
- SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
  It’s like they created Long Term Evolution (no more ‘G’enerations) then immediately realized the marketing issue.
gumby 8y ago
They seem to go out of their way to find perverse naming. Apart from 3.0/3.1/3.2 there’s the highspeed/superspeed nonsense. I can never keep any of it straight.
ken 8y ago
If I were being cynical, I'd say their motivation is to get people to throw up their hands and say "I don't understand USB any more! Just give me the latest version of Thunderbolt. I know it supports the highest speeds and highest power, including displays and eGPUs, and all USB devices, and works on any new Mac."
- close04 8y ago
  It allows manufacturers (yes, many of the same ones on the USB-IF board) to "upgrade" their products by printing another label. USB-IF doing this repeatedly while being fully aware of the consequences can't have any other explanation. This is just like the 4G-5G-5Ge debacle. Both being motivated solely by financial gain.
  - IronBacon 8y ago
    > This is just like the 4G-5G-5Ge debacle. Both being motivated solely by financial gain. You are forgetting 4G LTE... ^__^;
gnicholas 8y ago
So is there going to be a generation of young people who grow up thinking that all peripherals are USB, and that the naming system is so complicated/nonsensical that it isn’t even worth trying to figure it out? When I was growing up, we had USB, FireWire, and a couple size/speed variations. It was easy to understand and you could tell what a cable was by looking at it. For people who grew up in this era, the current situation is super annoying. Perhaps the young people of today will view peripheral standards as some sort of super-obscure language that isn’t intended to be decipherable by laymen?
- jjoonathan 8y ago
  Yes, and they will be forced to fall back on heuristics like "newer / more expensive / brand specific cables tend to fail less." Muddying the waters is a diabolically genius way of attacking the generic cable manufacturers.
- tatersolid 8y ago
  You kids had it so good. In my day, we had about 15 different peripheral busses that all ran over RS-232C or DB9 cables. You could fry a $10000 printer by plugging in a cable that fit perfectly on both ends. And we felt damn lucky to have them.

by yssrn 8y ago

mtgx 8y ago

So far all of their moves in regards to USB 3+ and type-c seem to have been to cater to various consumer companies. If we put it in that context, then this new re-branding has to be done for the same reason - so that the same companies can claim to support a "newer" USB standard (and thus a reason for you to upgrade to the new devices), even though nothing has changed.

chrismorgan 8y ago

When quoting, please prefix lines with > instead of using preformatted text: preformatted text for blocks of prose is horribly unusable, everywhere.

rconti 8y ago
Unfortunately, HN is so bad at publicizing and making this easy. I spent years assuming others knew some magical tool I didn't, before realizing people just do everything manually and stick to the same unwritten style guide.
- Wowfunhappy 8y ago
  ...it felt pretty obvious to me? ">" is pretty commonly used, in email for instance.
  - rconti 8y ago
    agreed, I just thought I was missing some hidden feature. Like, I have to do the line breaks myself? I guess?
tass 8y ago
Drives me nuts! For everyone on a phone: > USB-IF emphasizes the importance and value of consistent messaging on USB product packaging, marketing materials, and advertising. Inconsistent use of terminology creates confusion in the marketplace, can be misleading to consumers and potentially diminishes USB-IF’s trademark rights.
yssrn 8y ago
Apologies, I read the site every day but post so rarely that I forgot that's the consensus way to block quote. Thanks!
jacobolus 8y ago
It’s even better to also italicize (using asterisks), e.g.: > USB-IF emphasizes the importance and value of consistent messaging on USB product packaging, marketing materials, and advertising. Inconsistent use of terminology creates confusion in the marketplace, can be misleading to consumers and potentially diminishes USB-IF’s trademark rights. Then at a glance there is a distinction between the comment itself vs. quotations.

geekrax 8y ago

Off topic, but this is how I see your quote btw: https://i.imgur.com/dIFTp4Y.png https://i.imgur.com/dIFTp4Y.png

iClaudiusX 8y ago

The motivation is the same for re-branding 4G-LTE as 5G (or 6G). Sell the same thing with a new name so customers are tricked into thinking you're selling something newer and better based on the spec sheet without context.

Wowfunhappy 8y ago
The 5G thing is the carriers's doing, not the standards body.
imcs 8y ago
> Sell the same thing with a new name so customers are tricked into thinking you're selling something newer and better This is an argument towards rebranding to NEW USB 4! Which is ironically what we want at this point. There's a deranged lunatic in charge of USB naming that's inconveniencing everyone, including the companies that sell USB devices. Funnily enough corporate interests and user interests should converge on this but for some reason no-one's stopped this chaos yet.
SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
It’s like they created Long Term Evolution (no more ‘G’enerations) then immediately realized the marketing issue.

gumby 8y ago

They seem to go out of their way to find perverse naming. Apart from 3.0/3.1/3.2 there’s the highspeed/superspeed nonsense. I can never keep any of it straight.

ken 8y ago

If I were being cynical, I'd say their motivation is to get people to throw up their hands and say "I don't understand USB any more! Just give me the latest version of Thunderbolt. I know it supports the highest speeds and highest power, including displays and eGPUs, and all USB devices, and works on any new Mac."

close04 8y ago
It allows manufacturers (yes, many of the same ones on the USB-IF board) to "upgrade" their products by printing another label. USB-IF doing this repeatedly while being fully aware of the consequences can't have any other explanation. This is just like the 4G-5G-5Ge debacle. Both being motivated solely by financial gain.
- IronBacon 8y ago
  > This is just like the 4G-5G-5Ge debacle. Both being motivated solely by financial gain. You are forgetting 4G LTE... ^__^;

gnicholas 8y ago

So is there going to be a generation of young people who grow up thinking that all peripherals are USB, and that the naming system is so complicated/nonsensical that it isn’t even worth trying to figure it out? When I was growing up, we had USB, FireWire, and a couple size/speed variations. It was easy to understand and you could tell what a cable was by looking at it. For people who grew up in this era, the current situation is super annoying. Perhaps the young people of today will view peripheral standards as some sort of super-obscure language that isn’t intended to be decipherable by laymen?

jjoonathan 8y ago
Yes, and they will be forced to fall back on heuristics like "newer / more expensive / brand specific cables tend to fail less." Muddying the waters is a diabolically genius way of attacking the generic cable manufacturers.
tatersolid 8y ago
You kids had it so good. In my day, we had about 15 different peripheral busses that all ran over RS-232C or DB9 cables. You could fry a $10000 printer by plugging in a cable that fit perfectly on both ends. And we felt damn lucky to have them.