7 ms·

I visited Cuba a year ago for a couple days on a cruise. I had a nice time, some great people, some great venues (REALLY great venues)... but won't be going bac

I visited Cuba a year ago for a couple days on a cruise. I had a nice time, some great people, some great venues (REALLY great venues)... but won't be going back, and it's due to systematic deficiencies (trivial examples: garbage EVERYWHERE, many toilets have to ration toiled paper (!), not to mention, no incentive to clean the bathrooms, many restaurants had bland flavors due to the inability to order specialty food items and spices and only work with the bulk items the government gives you). Also it's frankly weird how the last capitalist era there is basically enshrined in their culture (from the cars, to the fairly-well-preserved buildings dating from that era) Odd observational note on the people: Many are into what I'd call cults but what most would call run-of-the-mill superstitious beliefs (voodoo, etc.)

daed 8y ago
Your complaints sound like they're coming from someone who went on a cruise to almost any third world island - though maybe other destinations are better controlled by the cruise companies to take you to specific (clean) tourist ports. Cuba is not without its problems, but much of what you describe is not unique to a third world country. The one area you're just completely wrong about is the flavors. I was only able to stay for 10 days, but on my short trip there I stayed in locals' houses (which is quite common there - google "casas particulares") and the vast majority of the meals we had - especially the ones cooked by the people we stayed with - were extremely flavorful. I'm not claiming socialism is great or anything - there was a potato shortage while I was there - but I'd just hope no one reads your post and thinks Cubans are eating terrible bland food...
- woodandsteel 8y ago
  >Cuba is not without its problems, but much of what you describe is not unique to a third world country. >I'm not claiming socialism is great or anything - there was a potato shortage while I was there But the point is that the countries that were third world a half century ago but have since raised themselves up to developed status did so through free market economics, while the socialist dictatorship countries like Cuba failed.
  - anoncake 8y ago
    Apparently, the methods used for planning economies known until ~1990, executed with the computers and communication systems of the time, in countries that were relatively poor to begin with, ruled as dictatorships, did not work well enough while the USA and its allies actively fought "communism". That tells us nothing. Guess which country is the richest in the Caribbean? Okay, it's the USA. It may hardly be a democracy anymore, it doesn't particularly respect human rights, but it hasn't regressed to developing status yet and it has free market economics up the wazoo. The richest independent country (as in, its mainland is in the Caribbean) is of course Cuba.
    - AnimalMuppet 8y ago
      Cuba's richer than, say, St. Kitts & Nevis? I'd like to see your source for that... Or are you listing St. Kitts as not independent, because it's part of the Commonwealth?
      - anoncake 8y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Kitts_and_Nevis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Kitts_and_Nevis Trinidad and Tobago is richer though (at $32,520 GDP/capita vs Cuba's $22,237).
        AnimalMuppet 8y ago
        I stand corrected. And I respect your honesty for checking other countries after proving me wrong...
        andrenth 8y ago
        Only if you believe in the Cuban government’s numbers. Do you really believe that a country whose population lives on rations and $30/month salaries is a rich one? https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/cuba/article195681589.html https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas...
- pmarreck 8y ago
  It depended on the restaurant. I got the feeling that some restaurants somehow had access to special flavorful ingredients, and some did not. I would not be surprised if this was simply the corrupt side of life in a communist-run institution. We have a favorite Cuban place in the States (shout-out to Corazón de Cuba in Long Beach, Long Island) and the owner said that he is able to make much more flavorful food in the states than he was in Cuba proper
djb_hackernews 8y ago
> Also it's frankly weird how the last capitalist era there is basically enshrined in their culture No, I think your first list perfectly enshrines the effects of modern day capitalism on modern day Cuba... > garbage EVERYWHERE, many toilets have to ration toiled paper (!), not to mention, no incentive to clean the bathrooms, many restaurants had bland flavors due to the inability to order specialty food items and spices and only work with the bulk items the government gives you
elliekelly 8y ago
I spent about 10 days in Cuba as part of a scientific research trip just before Obama eased the restrictions. What disturbed me the most was how many Cuban scientists I met who truly believed the Cubans would cure cancer for the entire world if it weren't for the American "blockade." Aside from the government propaganda, a lot of South American & Caribbean countries have the same issues you've outlined. (Though the lack of toilet seats has so far been pretty unique to Cuba in my travels most of the poorer countries are definitely BYOTP.) One thing that really stood out to me about Cuba when I went was their odd transition to "private property" which this new constitution vaguely addresses. When I was there (in 2014 or 2015?) Cubans were allowed to "own" real estate but the government could force them to "sell" the property at any time, at the price specified by the government, and only to the seller selected or approved by the government. It didn't seem that "ownership" came with many rights or benefits. As for the "voodoo" I think that's fairly common in the Caribbean/South America as well. There are "voodoo markets" in Haiti & Togo, for example. And the "witches market" in La Paz, Bolivia is... something if you're into being surrounded by dried llama fetuses.[1] [1]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-5273869/Inside-bizarre-witches-market-Bolivia.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-52738...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- anoncake 8y ago
  > What disturbed me the most was how many Cuban scientists I met who truly believed the Cubans would cure cancer for the entire world if it weren't for the American "blockade." But don't these scientists know that they are way to lazy to cure cancer anyway because in socialism, people have no motivation to work? > When I was there (in 2014 or 2015?) Cubans were allowed to "own" real estate but the government could force them to "sell" the property at any time, at the price specified by the government, and only to the seller selected or approved by the government. AKA eminent domain? > https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-52738.. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-52738.... Seriously?
  - 8y ago
SolaceQuantum 8y ago
"Many are into what I'd call cults but what most would call run-of-the-mill superstitious beliefs (voodoo, etc.)" Voodoo is not a run-of-the-mill superstition/cult any more than a major abrahamic religion is. It is a valid, recognized religious practice [1]. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Vod%C3%BA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Vod%C3%BA
- pmarreck 8y ago
  I think I'm allowed to have a very negative opinion of unfounded belief systems, given the damage they've done the past 3000 years up to and including the present U.S. "fakenews is whatever I don't believe is true" administration https://www.salon.com/2014/11/17/6_reasons_why_religion_does_more_harm_than_good_partner/ https://www.salon.com/2014/11/17/6_reasons_why_religion_does...

daed 8y ago

Your complaints sound like they're coming from someone who went on a cruise to almost any third world island - though maybe other destinations are better controlled by the cruise companies to take you to specific (clean) tourist ports. Cuba is not without its problems, but much of what you describe is not unique to a third world country. The one area you're just completely wrong about is the flavors. I was only able to stay for 10 days, but on my short trip there I stayed in locals' houses (which is quite common there - google "casas particulares") and the vast majority of the meals we had - especially the ones cooked by the people we stayed with - were extremely flavorful. I'm not claiming socialism is great or anything - there was a potato shortage while I was there - but I'd just hope no one reads your post and thinks Cubans are eating terrible bland food...

woodandsteel 8y ago
>Cuba is not without its problems, but much of what you describe is not unique to a third world country. >I'm not claiming socialism is great or anything - there was a potato shortage while I was there But the point is that the countries that were third world a half century ago but have since raised themselves up to developed status did so through free market economics, while the socialist dictatorship countries like Cuba failed.
- anoncake 8y ago
  Apparently, the methods used for planning economies known until ~1990, executed with the computers and communication systems of the time, in countries that were relatively poor to begin with, ruled as dictatorships, did not work well enough while the USA and its allies actively fought "communism". That tells us nothing. Guess which country is the richest in the Caribbean? Okay, it's the USA. It may hardly be a democracy anymore, it doesn't particularly respect human rights, but it hasn't regressed to developing status yet and it has free market economics up the wazoo. The richest independent country (as in, its mainland is in the Caribbean) is of course Cuba.
  - AnimalMuppet 8y ago
    Cuba's richer than, say, St. Kitts & Nevis? I'd like to see your source for that... Or are you listing St. Kitts as not independent, because it's part of the Commonwealth?
    - anoncake 8y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Kitts_and_Nevis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Kitts_and_Nevis Trinidad and Tobago is richer though (at $32,520 GDP/capita vs Cuba's $22,237).
      - AnimalMuppet 8y ago
        I stand corrected. And I respect your honesty for checking other countries after proving me wrong...
      - andrenth 8y ago
        Only if you believe in the Cuban government’s numbers. Do you really believe that a country whose population lives on rations and $30/month salaries is a rich one? https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/cuba/article195681589.html https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas...
pmarreck 8y ago
It depended on the restaurant. I got the feeling that some restaurants somehow had access to special flavorful ingredients, and some did not. I would not be surprised if this was simply the corrupt side of life in a communist-run institution. We have a favorite Cuban place in the States (shout-out to Corazón de Cuba in Long Beach, Long Island) and the owner said that he is able to make much more flavorful food in the states than he was in Cuba proper

djb_hackernews 8y ago

> Also it's frankly weird how the last capitalist era there is basically enshrined in their culture No, I think your first list perfectly enshrines the effects of modern day capitalism on modern day Cuba... > garbage EVERYWHERE, many toilets have to ration toiled paper (!), not to mention, no incentive to clean the bathrooms, many restaurants had bland flavors due to the inability to order specialty food items and spices and only work with the bulk items the government gives you

elliekelly 8y ago

I spent about 10 days in Cuba as part of a scientific research trip just before Obama eased the restrictions. What disturbed me the most was how many Cuban scientists I met who truly believed the Cubans would cure cancer for the entire world if it weren't for the American "blockade." Aside from the government propaganda, a lot of South American & Caribbean countries have the same issues you've outlined. (Though the lack of toilet seats has so far been pretty unique to Cuba in my travels most of the poorer countries are definitely BYOTP.) One thing that really stood out to me about Cuba when I went was their odd transition to "private property" which this new constitution vaguely addresses. When I was there (in 2014 or 2015?) Cubans were allowed to "own" real estate but the government could force them to "sell" the property at any time, at the price specified by the government, and only to the seller selected or approved by the government. It didn't seem that "ownership" came with many rights or benefits. As for the "voodoo" I think that's fairly common in the Caribbean/South America as well. There are "voodoo markets" in Haiti & Togo, for example. And the "witches market" in La Paz, Bolivia is... something if you're into being surrounded by dried llama fetuses.[1] [1]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-5273869/Inside-bizarre-witches-market-Bolivia.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-52738...

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
anoncake 8y ago
> What disturbed me the most was how many Cuban scientists I met who truly believed the Cubans would cure cancer for the entire world if it weren't for the American "blockade." But don't these scientists know that they are way to lazy to cure cancer anyway because in socialism, people have no motivation to work? > When I was there (in 2014 or 2015?) Cubans were allowed to "own" real estate but the government could force them to "sell" the property at any time, at the price specified by the government, and only to the seller selected or approved by the government. AKA eminent domain? > https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-52738.. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-52738.... Seriously?
- 8y ago

SolaceQuantum 8y ago

"Many are into what I'd call cults but what most would call run-of-the-mill superstitious beliefs (voodoo, etc.)" Voodoo is not a run-of-the-mill superstition/cult any more than a major abrahamic religion is. It is a valid, recognized religious practice [1]. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Vod%C3%BA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Vod%C3%BA

pmarreck 8y ago
I think I'm allowed to have a very negative opinion of unfounded belief systems, given the damage they've done the past 3000 years up to and including the present U.S. "fakenews is whatever I don't believe is true" administration https://www.salon.com/2014/11/17/6_reasons_why_religion_does_more_harm_than_good_partner/ https://www.salon.com/2014/11/17/6_reasons_why_religion_does...