7 ms·

As you aptly point out, affirmative action results in less productive workplaces in today's world. I think we need to accept this fact, and at the same time, r

As you aptly point out, affirmative action results in less productive workplaces in today's world. I think we need to accept this fact, and at the same time, realize that it's not necessarily a bad thing. It comes down to values. Which do we value more: productivity/economic output OR equality of opportunity? Historically, we have pretty much placed productivity at the top of our value chain, but over the past couple decades, it seems like we're starting to value equality of opportunity more than productivity. IMO, there's no right or wrong answer, but it behooves us to get on the same page so we don't feel conflicted.

Torwald 8y ago
We cannot choose "equality of opportunity" OVER "productivity/economic output", because then we will go broke. After that there is no choice left whatsoever. IMO we don't need "equality of opportunity" what we need instead is to make sure that those with the least amount of opportunity still have a lot of it. So much of it that they can move on and do so on a path that is to their liking. > but it behooves us to get on the same page so we don't feel conflicted. We can feel conflicted, that in itself is not problematic. Why should it be?
- mcguire 8y ago
  I take it you believe parental leave, extended vacation time, and the 40-hour work week are detrimental?
  - Torwald 8y ago
    Detrimental to what/whom? It depends, except with the 40-hour work week, that one belongs to the dustbin of history. Nobody profits from it at this point. BTW, why are you mentioning these topics?
noetic_techy 8y ago
Affirmative action is not equality of opportunity, its equality of outcomes. That's why places like Harvard have to give Asian students SAT scores negative modifiers in order to level the playing field of outcomes. We need to get a the root of the problem, not try to patch it at the top when its too late and override meritocracy. It all boils down to culture, which OP's article reinforces. Highly recommend Amy Chaus book The Triple Package. Its discusses why certain cultures succeed better than other in the US.
- mcguire 8y ago
  But see Jennifer Lee's response, https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2014/02/24/are-mexicans-the-most-successful-immigrant-group-in-the-u-s/ideas/nexus/ https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2014/02/24/are-mexicans-t.... "A colleague of mine illustrated this point with a baseball analogy: Most Americans would be more impressed by someone who made it to second base starting from home plate than someone who ended up on third base, when their parents started on third base. But because we tend to focus strictly on outcomes when we talk about success and mobility, we fail to acknowledge that the third base runner didn’t have to run far at all."
  - noetic_techy 8y ago
    It's not a rebuttal of Chau, its just a different metric tailored to propel an outlier forward. Great on Mexican-Americans for jumping a much larger gap. I would have been more convinced if the author had other examples though. If you read Chau's book, she was focused on median household income compared to Whites and average Americans, as well as many other factors such as entrepreneurship, degrees, etc. Lee's article left out some of the other subgroups Chaus metric applies to, they missed Iranians, Lebanese and Mormons (the only majority white group). I'll take a whole book dedicated to the cultural theory that explains the rise of 7 subgroups within the US over some article that points out 1 any day.

Torwald 8y ago

We cannot choose "equality of opportunity" OVER "productivity/economic output", because then we will go broke. After that there is no choice left whatsoever. IMO we don't need "equality of opportunity" what we need instead is to make sure that those with the least amount of opportunity still have a lot of it. So much of it that they can move on and do so on a path that is to their liking. > but it behooves us to get on the same page so we don't feel conflicted. We can feel conflicted, that in itself is not problematic. Why should it be?

mcguire 8y ago
I take it you believe parental leave, extended vacation time, and the 40-hour work week are detrimental?
- Torwald 8y ago
  Detrimental to what/whom? It depends, except with the 40-hour work week, that one belongs to the dustbin of history. Nobody profits from it at this point. BTW, why are you mentioning these topics?

noetic_techy 8y ago

Affirmative action is not equality of opportunity, its equality of outcomes. That's why places like Harvard have to give Asian students SAT scores negative modifiers in order to level the playing field of outcomes. We need to get a the root of the problem, not try to patch it at the top when its too late and override meritocracy. It all boils down to culture, which OP's article reinforces. Highly recommend Amy Chaus book The Triple Package. Its discusses why certain cultures succeed better than other in the US.

mcguire 8y ago
But see Jennifer Lee's response, https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2014/02/24/are-mexicans-the-most-successful-immigrant-group-in-the-u-s/ideas/nexus/ https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2014/02/24/are-mexicans-t.... "A colleague of mine illustrated this point with a baseball analogy: Most Americans would be more impressed by someone who made it to second base starting from home plate than someone who ended up on third base, when their parents started on third base. But because we tend to focus strictly on outcomes when we talk about success and mobility, we fail to acknowledge that the third base runner didn’t have to run far at all."
- noetic_techy 8y ago
  It's not a rebuttal of Chau, its just a different metric tailored to propel an outlier forward. Great on Mexican-Americans for jumping a much larger gap. I would have been more convinced if the author had other examples though. If you read Chau's book, she was focused on median household income compared to Whites and average Americans, as well as many other factors such as entrepreneurship, degrees, etc. Lee's article left out some of the other subgroups Chaus metric applies to, they missed Iranians, Lebanese and Mormons (the only majority white group). I'll take a whole book dedicated to the cultural theory that explains the rise of 7 subgroups within the US over some article that points out 1 any day.