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You can buy not-from-concentrate 100% orange juice from multiple brands in most American grocery stores. In upscale grocery stores you can often find pressed-o

by dpark 8y ago

You can buy not-from-concentrate 100% orange juice from multiple brands in most American grocery stores. In upscale grocery stores you can often find pressed-on-site orange juice.

sametmax 8y ago
Yes you can, but that's not the majority. And even pressed juice, something I actually buy regularly, usually tastes so-so. It's ok. It doesn't have to be. If I walk 15 minutes, I can get to the houses of somes friens. Once a year, for a few weaks, they get oranges in their garden. From it you get juice that children will choose over coke, grenadine, etc. Of course, the oranges are ugly, small, annoying to press, and appear only a short period of times in the year. It's not something you want for industrial purpose. When we reach industrial scale, a good deal of quality goes away. Now for a chair, I don't mind. I think society is not worst because of it. But for food, it's a double edge sword. On one hand, we can feed more people. On the other, we have an obesity epidemic because people crave sugary junk food. And I don't think it's their fault.
- dpark 8y ago
  You have access to all the non-concentrated orange juice you could want, but somehow it's a problem that there's from-concentrate orange juice on the shelf. You also have to have access to orange juice from your friend's tree once a year, so somehow even the non-concentrated orange juice is also a problem because something even better exists in limited quantities. This is snobbery, plain and simple. You're couching your complaints in terms of concern for better food for everyone, but you're actually dismissive of everything that isn't a luxury. Good for you that you can get orange juice from your friend's tree and buy $250 bottles of traditional balsamic vinegar. But these are not attainable for most people, and banning "fake" balsamic and bottled orange juice wouldn't fix that.
  - rfrey 8y ago
    I went back through the entire conversation and I couldn't find anything even remotely suggesting the parent was in favour of banning anything. All I read was a claim that industrial-scale food production often leads to an inferior product.
    - pkaye 8y ago
      The industrial scale food production is what allow more people access to the food.
  - logfromblammo 8y ago
    My opinion on luxury goods is that they're to be enjoyed, not to fuel an interminable contest of one-upsmanship. If you aren't rich, you can still buy a $250 bottle of "real" Balsamic vinegar and have a tasting party with your friends. Then you can go right back to the cheap stuff that's only 80% as good, but at 5% the price, and for the rest of your life remember the better flavor whenever using the cheaper stuff, and try to trick your brain into thinking that's what you have now. Or... you can just use it one drop at a time, and make that $250 bottle last 10 years. Scent and taste are great memory triggers. If ordinary orange juice from concentrate can remind you of that one time you had really great fresh-squeezed orange juice in season, it's almost like you can have the good stuff all year round, without paying the same costs. If you're so rich that you can constantly chase after new memories and never savor the old ones, congratulations. But don't begrudge others their shortcuts to memories of past experiences.
kbutler 8y ago
"not-from-concentrate" just means it was pasteurized, stored, and transported without water being removed and re-added. It still generally goes through aseptic storage for up to a year, which strips out the flavor, which is then added back in chemically, yielding a consistent per-brand flavor. https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/ask-an-academic-orange-juice https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/ask-an-academic-... You need to go with fresh-squeezed to avoid the chemistry set.
- dpark 8y ago
  I don't know. Florida's Natural says it contains only pasteurized orange juice. I don't know how to square that with the claim that it's full of artificial flavors. https://www.floridasnatural.com/our-juices/original-orange-juice.php https://www.floridasnatural.com/our-juices/original-orange-j... Of course pasteurization changes the flavor some, but that's also why it's still safe to drink after they ship it to you and you keep it in your fridge for a month. nothing nefarious about that, nor would I call it inferior. It's a tradeoff.
  - scott_s 8y ago
    Because the flavors are extracted from fruit. (Does it make a difference, given that the chemicals are the same? No.)
  - kbutler 8y ago
    scott_s is right - the "flavor packs" contain only chemicals extracted from the fruit, so they are still classified as "100% orange juice". But that doesn't mean they are "natural" or guarantee they are safe. And the companies will agree it is a tradeoff - there's no way they could meet the demand with fresh-squeezed juice. It requires a shelf-stable "solution" (pun intended). For an extreme example (I don't think orange juice flavor packs are like this in intent or effect), apple and cherry seeds contain small amounts of amygdalin, which digestion turns into cyanide. https://sciencenotes.org/yes-apple-seeds-and-cherry-pits-contain-cyanide/ https://sciencenotes.org/yes-apple-seeds-and-cherry-pits-con... Eating apples and cherries, even eating the occasional seed is not harmful, but processing could concentrate the amygdalin, making a very unsafe product that is still "100% apple juice". Almonds even more so - the amygdalin is apparently an important element of the almond flavor, but some varieties of almonds have enough that they are poisonous with only a few (apparently tasty!) nuts http://articles.latimes.com/2002/feb/20/food/fo-almond20 http://articles.latimes.com/2002/feb/20/food/fo-almond20

by dpark 8y ago

You can buy not-from-concentrate 100% orange juice from multiple brands in most American grocery stores. In upscale grocery stores you can often find pressed-on-site orange juice.

sametmax 8y ago

Yes you can, but that's not the majority. And even pressed juice, something I actually buy regularly, usually tastes so-so. It's ok. It doesn't have to be. If I walk 15 minutes, I can get to the houses of somes friens. Once a year, for a few weaks, they get oranges in their garden. From it you get juice that children will choose over coke, grenadine, etc. Of course, the oranges are ugly, small, annoying to press, and appear only a short period of times in the year. It's not something you want for industrial purpose. When we reach industrial scale, a good deal of quality goes away. Now for a chair, I don't mind. I think society is not worst because of it. But for food, it's a double edge sword. On one hand, we can feed more people. On the other, we have an obesity epidemic because people crave sugary junk food. And I don't think it's their fault.

dpark 8y ago
You have access to all the non-concentrated orange juice you could want, but somehow it's a problem that there's from-concentrate orange juice on the shelf. You also have to have access to orange juice from your friend's tree once a year, so somehow even the non-concentrated orange juice is also a problem because something even better exists in limited quantities. This is snobbery, plain and simple. You're couching your complaints in terms of concern for better food for everyone, but you're actually dismissive of everything that isn't a luxury. Good for you that you can get orange juice from your friend's tree and buy $250 bottles of traditional balsamic vinegar. But these are not attainable for most people, and banning "fake" balsamic and bottled orange juice wouldn't fix that.
- rfrey 8y ago
  I went back through the entire conversation and I couldn't find anything even remotely suggesting the parent was in favour of banning anything. All I read was a claim that industrial-scale food production often leads to an inferior product.
  - pkaye 8y ago
    The industrial scale food production is what allow more people access to the food.
- logfromblammo 8y ago
  My opinion on luxury goods is that they're to be enjoyed, not to fuel an interminable contest of one-upsmanship. If you aren't rich, you can still buy a $250 bottle of "real" Balsamic vinegar and have a tasting party with your friends. Then you can go right back to the cheap stuff that's only 80% as good, but at 5% the price, and for the rest of your life remember the better flavor whenever using the cheaper stuff, and try to trick your brain into thinking that's what you have now. Or... you can just use it one drop at a time, and make that $250 bottle last 10 years. Scent and taste are great memory triggers. If ordinary orange juice from concentrate can remind you of that one time you had really great fresh-squeezed orange juice in season, it's almost like you can have the good stuff all year round, without paying the same costs. If you're so rich that you can constantly chase after new memories and never savor the old ones, congratulations. But don't begrudge others their shortcuts to memories of past experiences.

kbutler 8y ago

"not-from-concentrate" just means it was pasteurized, stored, and transported without water being removed and re-added. It still generally goes through aseptic storage for up to a year, which strips out the flavor, which is then added back in chemically, yielding a consistent per-brand flavor. https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/ask-an-academic-orange-juice https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/ask-an-academic-... You need to go with fresh-squeezed to avoid the chemistry set.

dpark 8y ago
I don't know. Florida's Natural says it contains only pasteurized orange juice. I don't know how to square that with the claim that it's full of artificial flavors. https://www.floridasnatural.com/our-juices/original-orange-juice.php https://www.floridasnatural.com/our-juices/original-orange-j... Of course pasteurization changes the flavor some, but that's also why it's still safe to drink after they ship it to you and you keep it in your fridge for a month. nothing nefarious about that, nor would I call it inferior. It's a tradeoff.
- scott_s 8y ago
  Because the flavors are extracted from fruit. (Does it make a difference, given that the chemicals are the same? No.)
- kbutler 8y ago
  scott_s is right - the "flavor packs" contain only chemicals extracted from the fruit, so they are still classified as "100% orange juice". But that doesn't mean they are "natural" or guarantee they are safe. And the companies will agree it is a tradeoff - there's no way they could meet the demand with fresh-squeezed juice. It requires a shelf-stable "solution" (pun intended). For an extreme example (I don't think orange juice flavor packs are like this in intent or effect), apple and cherry seeds contain small amounts of amygdalin, which digestion turns into cyanide. https://sciencenotes.org/yes-apple-seeds-and-cherry-pits-contain-cyanide/ https://sciencenotes.org/yes-apple-seeds-and-cherry-pits-con... Eating apples and cherries, even eating the occasional seed is not harmful, but processing could concentrate the amygdalin, making a very unsafe product that is still "100% apple juice". Almonds even more so - the amygdalin is apparently an important element of the almond flavor, but some varieties of almonds have enough that they are poisonous with only a few (apparently tasty!) nuts http://articles.latimes.com/2002/feb/20/food/fo-almond20 http://articles.latimes.com/2002/feb/20/food/fo-almond20