4 ms·

I never understood why sites try to do geo based localization. Every browser in capable of setting the requested language in the request headers so why not use

I never understood why sites try to do geo based localization. Every browser in capable of setting the requested language in the request headers so why not use that ? Technically much simpler as well. And the user can just change the browser preferences and all sites would magically switch to the right language. Hey I can dream right ?

C1sc0cat 8y ago
A number of reasons I work for major conglomerate which has over 200 brands and operates in getting on for 200 countries. In the USA for one brand they sell different products to the UK than the USA for another brand they use a different brand entirely in the USA to the rest of the world. There are also legal reasons why you might need to geo target.
- zdragnar 8y ago
  That displays different content, but the Accept-Language header (with locale specialization) isn't about the content, its about the language the content is displayed in.
- teddyh 8y ago
  That’s not localization, though. That’s market segmentation based on location detection, which is a different thing, strictly speaking. I mean, they could still show me the UK-only site if they determine that I am in the UK, but show me the UK site in German, with German units, dates and time codes, etc., because that’s what my browser might tell them that I prefer.
  - C1sc0cat 8y ago
    Have you any idea how much work that is and how many things can go wrong I might have a dozen or more locales / languages and if you then want to see any locale in any language that's a huge amount of different urls Ok so you want German content in the UK do I show you the German locale and products legally available in Germany? the UK locale and products legally available in the UK translated into German? And do I age gate you based on German law or English what happens if I show you a BOGOF offer do I obey German law or English What happens if google messes up. What happens if your in Quebec and I accidently show you an illegal competition What T&C's do I show you
    - jfoucher 8y ago
      No need to have different urls for different languages. If you detect that the user's location is in the UK display the UK site, comply with UK laws etc... If that same user sends a German Accept-Language header, show them the UI in German. Doesn't seem much more complex that what you're already doing...
      - C1sc0cat 8y ago
        You might want to translate the url for any number of reasons mostly SEO related. But the main problem what if google gets confused and messes up and lands you on the wrong potentially problematic url - do you want to be the developer explain to the General counsel why the company is in trouble.
        megous 8y ago
        You can't go wrong with ?p=564. You might want to skip 666, 13, and some other numbers too, though. :D
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
- atemerev 8y ago
  Yes, those are the worst. Sometimes I can't buy books or movies or games in the language I prefer (English), I have to wait for (usually poor) localization. The number of times I have saw the dreaded "this product is available only for the residents of US and Canada", I can't even understand, why my money is not good enough for that.
  - Wowfunhappy 8y ago
    > why my money is not good enough for that. It's likely not that they don't want your money, but rather that they don't have the legal right to sell you a piece of content in exchange for your money.
    - atemerev 8y ago
      If I am visiting another country, I can buy a physical game or movie in a brick and mortar store. There isn’t any reason it shouldn’t work for online purchases.
      - Wowfunhappy 8y ago
        If you use your laptop in another country, you'll also be able to purchase geo-locked content with your foreign IP address. (Unless they reject foreign credit cards, but that's more to prevent VPN's, and you're just a false positive.) The way copyright gets licensed per-country is pretty dumb in the age of the internet, but it's not correct to blame individual retailers for this. They would love to have a larger customer base.
    - ken 8y ago
      Yet I can go to <country>.amazon.com and buy it and have it shipped here. Is Amazon breaking the law?
      - Wowfunhappy 8y ago
        Actually, there's a lot of stuff they won't ship to you. I had to use a forwarding service to buy video games from amazon.co.jp for many years, although more recently they've started to allow foreign purchases on most video games. No idea what precipitated the change. I imagine this is mostly a legal gray area that no one cares enough to litigate. The number of people going to foreign sites to paying international shipping prices and wait weeks for their products to arrive is too small to worry about.
ryandrake 8y ago
Developer cleverness/arrogance. “Users are stupid” mindset. Product designers thinking they know better than their users what language they want. It’s infuriating to travel overseas and, without changing anything about my computer’s setup, having to deal with web sites overriding my chosen preferred language. Please, just stop doing this.
kawsper 8y ago
In my experience these are often configured wrong, because browsers are guessing settings based on the locales used by the operating system, and because users don't know how to configure it because it is really hidden away. For the cases I see it is technical minded people that speak another language than Danish, that buy (or inherit) a laptop with Windows on Danish, so the browser infers its settings from the operating system, and now you can no longer trust this header. But it might be just as wrong as guessing language based on IP-location, so there are not really a good out-of-the-box solution, so every website will have to build their own selector maybe with input both from the browser headers and from the IP-geolocation.
- Svip 8y ago
  Browsers should just make it more obvious and easier to configure. But a lot of websites respect this, I've found. You'd be surprised. Chrome makes sure to suggest translating a page. Why doesn't it suggest to change my language preferences as well? Rather than just suggesting 'ignore translating for this language' as the alternative.

C1sc0cat 8y ago

A number of reasons I work for major conglomerate which has over 200 brands and operates in getting on for 200 countries. In the USA for one brand they sell different products to the UK than the USA for another brand they use a different brand entirely in the USA to the rest of the world. There are also legal reasons why you might need to geo target.

zdragnar 8y ago
That displays different content, but the Accept-Language header (with locale specialization) isn't about the content, its about the language the content is displayed in.
teddyh 8y ago
That’s not localization, though. That’s market segmentation based on location detection, which is a different thing, strictly speaking. I mean, they could still show me the UK-only site if they determine that I am in the UK, but show me the UK site in German, with German units, dates and time codes, etc., because that’s what my browser might tell them that I prefer.
- C1sc0cat 8y ago
  Have you any idea how much work that is and how many things can go wrong I might have a dozen or more locales / languages and if you then want to see any locale in any language that's a huge amount of different urls Ok so you want German content in the UK do I show you the German locale and products legally available in Germany? the UK locale and products legally available in the UK translated into German? And do I age gate you based on German law or English what happens if I show you a BOGOF offer do I obey German law or English What happens if google messes up. What happens if your in Quebec and I accidently show you an illegal competition What T&C's do I show you
  - jfoucher 8y ago
    No need to have different urls for different languages. If you detect that the user's location is in the UK display the UK site, comply with UK laws etc... If that same user sends a German Accept-Language header, show them the UI in German. Doesn't seem much more complex that what you're already doing...
    - C1sc0cat 8y ago
      You might want to translate the url for any number of reasons mostly SEO related. But the main problem what if google gets confused and messes up and lands you on the wrong potentially problematic url - do you want to be the developer explain to the General counsel why the company is in trouble.
      - megous 8y ago
        You can't go wrong with ?p=564. You might want to skip 666, 13, and some other numbers too, though. :D
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
atemerev 8y ago
Yes, those are the worst. Sometimes I can't buy books or movies or games in the language I prefer (English), I have to wait for (usually poor) localization. The number of times I have saw the dreaded "this product is available only for the residents of US and Canada", I can't even understand, why my money is not good enough for that.
- Wowfunhappy 8y ago
  > why my money is not good enough for that. It's likely not that they don't want your money, but rather that they don't have the legal right to sell you a piece of content in exchange for your money.
  - atemerev 8y ago
    If I am visiting another country, I can buy a physical game or movie in a brick and mortar store. There isn’t any reason it shouldn’t work for online purchases.
    - Wowfunhappy 8y ago
      If you use your laptop in another country, you'll also be able to purchase geo-locked content with your foreign IP address. (Unless they reject foreign credit cards, but that's more to prevent VPN's, and you're just a false positive.) The way copyright gets licensed per-country is pretty dumb in the age of the internet, but it's not correct to blame individual retailers for this. They would love to have a larger customer base.
  - ken 8y ago
    Yet I can go to <country>.amazon.com and buy it and have it shipped here. Is Amazon breaking the law?
    - Wowfunhappy 8y ago
      Actually, there's a lot of stuff they won't ship to you. I had to use a forwarding service to buy video games from amazon.co.jp for many years, although more recently they've started to allow foreign purchases on most video games. No idea what precipitated the change. I imagine this is mostly a legal gray area that no one cares enough to litigate. The number of people going to foreign sites to paying international shipping prices and wait weeks for their products to arrive is too small to worry about.

ryandrake 8y ago

Developer cleverness/arrogance. “Users are stupid” mindset. Product designers thinking they know better than their users what language they want. It’s infuriating to travel overseas and, without changing anything about my computer’s setup, having to deal with web sites overriding my chosen preferred language. Please, just stop doing this.

kawsper 8y ago

In my experience these are often configured wrong, because browsers are guessing settings based on the locales used by the operating system, and because users don't know how to configure it because it is really hidden away. For the cases I see it is technical minded people that speak another language than Danish, that buy (or inherit) a laptop with Windows on Danish, so the browser infers its settings from the operating system, and now you can no longer trust this header. But it might be just as wrong as guessing language based on IP-location, so there are not really a good out-of-the-box solution, so every website will have to build their own selector maybe with input both from the browser headers and from the IP-geolocation.

Svip 8y ago
Browsers should just make it more obvious and easier to configure. But a lot of websites respect this, I've found. You'd be surprised. Chrome makes sure to suggest translating a page. Why doesn't it suggest to change my language preferences as well? Rather than just suggesting 'ignore translating for this language' as the alternative.