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You can find real orange juice in any store as well. Most of it is acide orange fruity sugar concentrate diluted in water though.

dpark 8y ago
You can buy not-from-concentrate 100% orange juice from multiple brands in most American grocery stores. In upscale grocery stores you can often find pressed-on-site orange juice.
- sametmax 8y ago
  Yes you can, but that's not the majority. And even pressed juice, something I actually buy regularly, usually tastes so-so. It's ok. It doesn't have to be. If I walk 15 minutes, I can get to the houses of somes friens. Once a year, for a few weaks, they get oranges in their garden. From it you get juice that children will choose over coke, grenadine, etc. Of course, the oranges are ugly, small, annoying to press, and appear only a short period of times in the year. It's not something you want for industrial purpose. When we reach industrial scale, a good deal of quality goes away. Now for a chair, I don't mind. I think society is not worst because of it. But for food, it's a double edge sword. On one hand, we can feed more people. On the other, we have an obesity epidemic because people crave sugary junk food. And I don't think it's their fault.
  - dpark 8y ago
    You have access to all the non-concentrated orange juice you could want, but somehow it's a problem that there's from-concentrate orange juice on the shelf. You also have to have access to orange juice from your friend's tree once a year, so somehow even the non-concentrated orange juice is also a problem because something even better exists in limited quantities. This is snobbery, plain and simple. You're couching your complaints in terms of concern for better food for everyone, but you're actually dismissive of everything that isn't a luxury. Good for you that you can get orange juice from your friend's tree and buy $250 bottles of traditional balsamic vinegar. But these are not attainable for most people, and banning "fake" balsamic and bottled orange juice wouldn't fix that.
    - rfrey 8y ago
      I went back through the entire conversation and I couldn't find anything even remotely suggesting the parent was in favour of banning anything. All I read was a claim that industrial-scale food production often leads to an inferior product.
      - pkaye 8y ago
        The industrial scale food production is what allow more people access to the food.
    - logfromblammo 8y ago
      My opinion on luxury goods is that they're to be enjoyed, not to fuel an interminable contest of one-upsmanship. If you aren't rich, you can still buy a $250 bottle of "real" Balsamic vinegar and have a tasting party with your friends. Then you can go right back to the cheap stuff that's only 80% as good, but at 5% the price, and for the rest of your life remember the better flavor whenever using the cheaper stuff, and try to trick your brain into thinking that's what you have now. Or... you can just use it one drop at a time, and make that $250 bottle last 10 years. Scent and taste are great memory triggers. If ordinary orange juice from concentrate can remind you of that one time you had really great fresh-squeezed orange juice in season, it's almost like you can have the good stuff all year round, without paying the same costs. If you're so rich that you can constantly chase after new memories and never savor the old ones, congratulations. But don't begrudge others their shortcuts to memories of past experiences.
- kbutler 8y ago
  "not-from-concentrate" just means it was pasteurized, stored, and transported without water being removed and re-added. It still generally goes through aseptic storage for up to a year, which strips out the flavor, which is then added back in chemically, yielding a consistent per-brand flavor. https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/ask-an-academic-orange-juice https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/ask-an-academic-... You need to go with fresh-squeezed to avoid the chemistry set.
  - dpark 8y ago
    I don't know. Florida's Natural says it contains only pasteurized orange juice. I don't know how to square that with the claim that it's full of artificial flavors. https://www.floridasnatural.com/our-juices/original-orange-juice.php https://www.floridasnatural.com/our-juices/original-orange-j... Of course pasteurization changes the flavor some, but that's also why it's still safe to drink after they ship it to you and you keep it in your fridge for a month. nothing nefarious about that, nor would I call it inferior. It's a tradeoff.
    - scott_s 8y ago
      Because the flavors are extracted from fruit. (Does it make a difference, given that the chemicals are the same? No.)
    - kbutler 8y ago
      scott_s is right - the "flavor packs" contain only chemicals extracted from the fruit, so they are still classified as "100% orange juice". But that doesn't mean they are "natural" or guarantee they are safe. And the companies will agree it is a tradeoff - there's no way they could meet the demand with fresh-squeezed juice. It requires a shelf-stable "solution" (pun intended). For an extreme example (I don't think orange juice flavor packs are like this in intent or effect), apple and cherry seeds contain small amounts of amygdalin, which digestion turns into cyanide. https://sciencenotes.org/yes-apple-seeds-and-cherry-pits-contain-cyanide/ https://sciencenotes.org/yes-apple-seeds-and-cherry-pits-con... Eating apples and cherries, even eating the occasional seed is not harmful, but processing could concentrate the amygdalin, making a very unsafe product that is still "100% apple juice". Almonds even more so - the amygdalin is apparently an important element of the almond flavor, but some varieties of almonds have enough that they are poisonous with only a few (apparently tasty!) nuts http://articles.latimes.com/2002/feb/20/food/fo-almond20 http://articles.latimes.com/2002/feb/20/food/fo-almond20
endorphone 8y ago
Most of it is acide orange fruity sugar concentrate diluted in water though. The vast majority is 100% orange juice, either not from concentrate, or re-hydrated (sometimes claimed to be "artificial" because they also add orange juice zest or oils). To go back to my original, I can find traditional balsamic in multiple major grocery stores in my city. It's very expensive for a usually tiny bottle, but if you want it it isn't terribly hard to find. You can buy it on Amazon any hour of the day. And if your standards aren't quite so high, balsamic vinegar of modena, usually with just two ingredients (grape must and white vinegar) can be found everywhere for little, tasting marginally different. Italy considers and regulates either of those as "real". We see the same gatekeeping claims with parmigiano-reggiano: Someone avails themselves on the Kraft green "parmesan" and then tells everyone else about how they've never tasted the real thing, it's so exclusive, etc (but, of course, they have that one time). Never aware that the cheese aisle has big blocks of 100% real, certified, regulated, straight from the source Parmigiano-Reggiano. This same discussion is occurring regarding tomatoes, as if having eaten a ripe garden tomato is some exclusive experience (rather than completely banal and experienced by virtually everyone).
- sametmax 8y ago
  It's not about exclusivity, it's about awareness. > This same discussion is occurring regarding tomatoes, as if having eaten a ripe garden tomato is some exclusive experience Well, I ate many ripe garden tomato, and not it's not some exclusive experience. They are still not as good as they should be. They are much better, but it's still a far cry from what everybody should be able to eat. My message is not "I'm great, I know tomatoes and you don't". My message is "it's fucked up, we managed to screw up the production of something amazing". We are trading quantity for quality, a little more every day, and now the standard people have is very low. And so they buy so-so things for a premium, and are happy with it, or chose to buy the junk food.
  - OldFatCactus 8y ago
    What are you trying to say? That the current trendy breeds of tomatoes aren't real tomatoes? Heirloom tomato breeds are very much in vogue these days as far as I know

dpark 8y ago

You can buy not-from-concentrate 100% orange juice from multiple brands in most American grocery stores. In upscale grocery stores you can often find pressed-on-site orange juice.

sametmax 8y ago
Yes you can, but that's not the majority. And even pressed juice, something I actually buy regularly, usually tastes so-so. It's ok. It doesn't have to be. If I walk 15 minutes, I can get to the houses of somes friens. Once a year, for a few weaks, they get oranges in their garden. From it you get juice that children will choose over coke, grenadine, etc. Of course, the oranges are ugly, small, annoying to press, and appear only a short period of times in the year. It's not something you want for industrial purpose. When we reach industrial scale, a good deal of quality goes away. Now for a chair, I don't mind. I think society is not worst because of it. But for food, it's a double edge sword. On one hand, we can feed more people. On the other, we have an obesity epidemic because people crave sugary junk food. And I don't think it's their fault.
- dpark 8y ago
  You have access to all the non-concentrated orange juice you could want, but somehow it's a problem that there's from-concentrate orange juice on the shelf. You also have to have access to orange juice from your friend's tree once a year, so somehow even the non-concentrated orange juice is also a problem because something even better exists in limited quantities. This is snobbery, plain and simple. You're couching your complaints in terms of concern for better food for everyone, but you're actually dismissive of everything that isn't a luxury. Good for you that you can get orange juice from your friend's tree and buy $250 bottles of traditional balsamic vinegar. But these are not attainable for most people, and banning "fake" balsamic and bottled orange juice wouldn't fix that.
  - rfrey 8y ago
    I went back through the entire conversation and I couldn't find anything even remotely suggesting the parent was in favour of banning anything. All I read was a claim that industrial-scale food production often leads to an inferior product.
    - pkaye 8y ago
      The industrial scale food production is what allow more people access to the food.
  - logfromblammo 8y ago
    My opinion on luxury goods is that they're to be enjoyed, not to fuel an interminable contest of one-upsmanship. If you aren't rich, you can still buy a $250 bottle of "real" Balsamic vinegar and have a tasting party with your friends. Then you can go right back to the cheap stuff that's only 80% as good, but at 5% the price, and for the rest of your life remember the better flavor whenever using the cheaper stuff, and try to trick your brain into thinking that's what you have now. Or... you can just use it one drop at a time, and make that $250 bottle last 10 years. Scent and taste are great memory triggers. If ordinary orange juice from concentrate can remind you of that one time you had really great fresh-squeezed orange juice in season, it's almost like you can have the good stuff all year round, without paying the same costs. If you're so rich that you can constantly chase after new memories and never savor the old ones, congratulations. But don't begrudge others their shortcuts to memories of past experiences.
kbutler 8y ago
"not-from-concentrate" just means it was pasteurized, stored, and transported without water being removed and re-added. It still generally goes through aseptic storage for up to a year, which strips out the flavor, which is then added back in chemically, yielding a consistent per-brand flavor. https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/ask-an-academic-orange-juice https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/ask-an-academic-... You need to go with fresh-squeezed to avoid the chemistry set.
- dpark 8y ago
  I don't know. Florida's Natural says it contains only pasteurized orange juice. I don't know how to square that with the claim that it's full of artificial flavors. https://www.floridasnatural.com/our-juices/original-orange-juice.php https://www.floridasnatural.com/our-juices/original-orange-j... Of course pasteurization changes the flavor some, but that's also why it's still safe to drink after they ship it to you and you keep it in your fridge for a month. nothing nefarious about that, nor would I call it inferior. It's a tradeoff.
  - scott_s 8y ago
    Because the flavors are extracted from fruit. (Does it make a difference, given that the chemicals are the same? No.)
  - kbutler 8y ago
    scott_s is right - the "flavor packs" contain only chemicals extracted from the fruit, so they are still classified as "100% orange juice". But that doesn't mean they are "natural" or guarantee they are safe. And the companies will agree it is a tradeoff - there's no way they could meet the demand with fresh-squeezed juice. It requires a shelf-stable "solution" (pun intended). For an extreme example (I don't think orange juice flavor packs are like this in intent or effect), apple and cherry seeds contain small amounts of amygdalin, which digestion turns into cyanide. https://sciencenotes.org/yes-apple-seeds-and-cherry-pits-contain-cyanide/ https://sciencenotes.org/yes-apple-seeds-and-cherry-pits-con... Eating apples and cherries, even eating the occasional seed is not harmful, but processing could concentrate the amygdalin, making a very unsafe product that is still "100% apple juice". Almonds even more so - the amygdalin is apparently an important element of the almond flavor, but some varieties of almonds have enough that they are poisonous with only a few (apparently tasty!) nuts http://articles.latimes.com/2002/feb/20/food/fo-almond20 http://articles.latimes.com/2002/feb/20/food/fo-almond20

endorphone 8y ago

Most of it is acide orange fruity sugar concentrate diluted in water though. The vast majority is 100% orange juice, either not from concentrate, or re-hydrated (sometimes claimed to be "artificial" because they also add orange juice zest or oils). To go back to my original, I can find traditional balsamic in multiple major grocery stores in my city. It's very expensive for a usually tiny bottle, but if you want it it isn't terribly hard to find. You can buy it on Amazon any hour of the day. And if your standards aren't quite so high, balsamic vinegar of modena, usually with just two ingredients (grape must and white vinegar) can be found everywhere for little, tasting marginally different. Italy considers and regulates either of those as "real". We see the same gatekeeping claims with parmigiano-reggiano: Someone avails themselves on the Kraft green "parmesan" and then tells everyone else about how they've never tasted the real thing, it's so exclusive, etc (but, of course, they have that one time). Never aware that the cheese aisle has big blocks of 100% real, certified, regulated, straight from the source Parmigiano-Reggiano. This same discussion is occurring regarding tomatoes, as if having eaten a ripe garden tomato is some exclusive experience (rather than completely banal and experienced by virtually everyone).

sametmax 8y ago
It's not about exclusivity, it's about awareness. > This same discussion is occurring regarding tomatoes, as if having eaten a ripe garden tomato is some exclusive experience Well, I ate many ripe garden tomato, and not it's not some exclusive experience. They are still not as good as they should be. They are much better, but it's still a far cry from what everybody should be able to eat. My message is not "I'm great, I know tomatoes and you don't". My message is "it's fucked up, we managed to screw up the production of something amazing". We are trading quantity for quality, a little more every day, and now the standard people have is very low. And so they buy so-so things for a premium, and are happy with it, or chose to buy the junk food.
- OldFatCactus 8y ago
  What are you trying to say? That the current trendy breeds of tomatoes aren't real tomatoes? Heirloom tomato breeds are very much in vogue these days as far as I know