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You must accept cookies to view this message. How about vote no on the EU altogether. This entity is too large, too powerful and has a track record of passing

You must accept cookies to view this message. How about vote no on the EU altogether. This entity is too large, too powerful and has a track record of passing terrible laws around internet usage.

korijn 8y ago
I can access the internet with no additional cost throughout the EU thanks to them, that's not a terrible law around internet usage?
lostjohnny 8y ago
> How about vote no on the EU altogether How about you just leave EU? It's full of countries out there that are waiting for you and don't care about protecting your data. You're free.
- beqcq 8y ago
  He will stay where he is, and he will vote for politicians who either support or oppose staying in the EU, as it's his right.
- marcrosoft 8y ago
  That's what I'm promoting. Not individuals like myself but countries should leave the EU so individuals can have more freedom.
arghwhat 8y ago
Not many governments have a good track record with regards to regulating IT. My local government (Denmark) cannot even respect basic human rights in their IT laws, and even when said laws are deemed a human rights violation, they refuse to remove them, instead leaving them in place while claiming they'll be "revised". There are also many other issues where EU does better than IT. Food safety, environment regulations and trade agreements, just to mention a few. While smaller units are almost universally better (imagine how different history would have been if the provinces of China had been independent countries), but does mean that each individual country must make many more agreements on their own, and have to shape their own regulations for things like food safety and environmental efforts, which might not turn out as well if they are not forced by the collective.
- marcrosoft 8y ago
  > While smaller units are almost universally better I completely agree. In my opinion it should go down to the individual level. Let's say China had independent states/countries per province. And, they all agreed to a set of laws individually but disagreed as a collective set of laws. This would mean that most citizens would suffer as the laws are (at best) an average of the opinions of all citizens of China. Being an average, most people would have at least one disagreement on how a particular law should or should not be. There will be of course some some people that lie on the exact average. These lucky people would be 100% fairly represented. In order to be fair ultimately law needs to favor the individual, not a country, state, or other larger group.
freddex 8y ago
Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater! The EU provides considerable benefits for Europe, arguably the most important, but also the most invisible, being peace. World War II ended only 74 years ago. To be a little dramatic: As a German, I'll gladly pay bureaucracy for peace. There's trade benefits inside the EU, free travel for all citizens, and, recently added, no more roaming fees for mobile phones. This is just what comes to mind right now. There's plenty to criticize and reform in the EU, but I disagree that leaving would improve things for any country.
- Mirioron 8y ago
  >As a German, I'll gladly pay bureaucracy for peace. There's trade benefits inside the EU, free travel for all citizens, and, recently added, no more roaming fees for mobile phones. Of course brain drain has been hugely beneficial for Germany. It also helps Germany that weaker economies are tied to the euro which keeps the euro's exchange rate down. I used to be pro-EU, but time and time again they create regulations and directives that are simply harmful for our future or don't consider collateral damage. Furthermore, Germany and France seem to be pushing hard on becoming rulers whether the other members want it or not. >but I disagree that leaving would improve things for any country. Of course leaving won't improve things because the EU will try to punish any leavers as much as possible. The entire EU situation is just depressing, because you can't leave, it won't improve and bad decisions keep being made and you're forced to abide by them. And what makes it even worse is that the pro-EU people are telling me that I should be happy because of these bad decisions.
  - marcrosoft 8y ago
    > Of course leaving won't improve things because the EU will try to punish any leavers as much as possible. The entire EU situation is just depressing, because you can't leave, it won't improve and bad decisions keep being made and you're forced to abide by them. Ultimately all bad decisions must be paid for. This is the hidden cost of letting the EU exist. Unfortunately, the longer it exists the more painful it will be to leave.
- marcrosoft 8y ago

You must accept cookies to view this message. How about vote no on the EU altogether. This entity is too large, too powerful and has a track record of passing terrible laws around internet usage.

korijn 8y ago

I can access the internet with no additional cost throughout the EU thanks to them, that's not a terrible law around internet usage?

lostjohnny 8y ago

> How about vote no on the EU altogether How about you just leave EU? It's full of countries out there that are waiting for you and don't care about protecting your data. You're free.

beqcq 8y ago
He will stay where he is, and he will vote for politicians who either support or oppose staying in the EU, as it's his right.
marcrosoft 8y ago
That's what I'm promoting. Not individuals like myself but countries should leave the EU so individuals can have more freedom.

arghwhat 8y ago

Not many governments have a good track record with regards to regulating IT. My local government (Denmark) cannot even respect basic human rights in their IT laws, and even when said laws are deemed a human rights violation, they refuse to remove them, instead leaving them in place while claiming they'll be "revised". There are also many other issues where EU does better than IT. Food safety, environment regulations and trade agreements, just to mention a few. While smaller units are almost universally better (imagine how different history would have been if the provinces of China had been independent countries), but does mean that each individual country must make many more agreements on their own, and have to shape their own regulations for things like food safety and environmental efforts, which might not turn out as well if they are not forced by the collective.

marcrosoft 8y ago
> While smaller units are almost universally better I completely agree. In my opinion it should go down to the individual level. Let's say China had independent states/countries per province. And, they all agreed to a set of laws individually but disagreed as a collective set of laws. This would mean that most citizens would suffer as the laws are (at best) an average of the opinions of all citizens of China. Being an average, most people would have at least one disagreement on how a particular law should or should not be. There will be of course some some people that lie on the exact average. These lucky people would be 100% fairly represented. In order to be fair ultimately law needs to favor the individual, not a country, state, or other larger group.

freddex 8y ago

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater! The EU provides considerable benefits for Europe, arguably the most important, but also the most invisible, being peace. World War II ended only 74 years ago. To be a little dramatic: As a German, I'll gladly pay bureaucracy for peace. There's trade benefits inside the EU, free travel for all citizens, and, recently added, no more roaming fees for mobile phones. This is just what comes to mind right now. There's plenty to criticize and reform in the EU, but I disagree that leaving would improve things for any country.

Mirioron 8y ago
>As a German, I'll gladly pay bureaucracy for peace. There's trade benefits inside the EU, free travel for all citizens, and, recently added, no more roaming fees for mobile phones. Of course brain drain has been hugely beneficial for Germany. It also helps Germany that weaker economies are tied to the euro which keeps the euro's exchange rate down. I used to be pro-EU, but time and time again they create regulations and directives that are simply harmful for our future or don't consider collateral damage. Furthermore, Germany and France seem to be pushing hard on becoming rulers whether the other members want it or not. >but I disagree that leaving would improve things for any country. Of course leaving won't improve things because the EU will try to punish any leavers as much as possible. The entire EU situation is just depressing, because you can't leave, it won't improve and bad decisions keep being made and you're forced to abide by them. And what makes it even worse is that the pro-EU people are telling me that I should be happy because of these bad decisions.
- marcrosoft 8y ago
  > Of course leaving won't improve things because the EU will try to punish any leavers as much as possible. The entire EU situation is just depressing, because you can't leave, it won't improve and bad decisions keep being made and you're forced to abide by them. Ultimately all bad decisions must be paid for. This is the hidden cost of letting the EU exist. Unfortunately, the longer it exists the more painful it will be to leave.
marcrosoft 8y ago