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> The key insight is that a bakery formula is so cliched that it can be represented as data. Here’s the formula for seedy malt loaves: > Of course, that’s not

> The key insight is that a bakery formula is so cliched that it can be represented as data. Here’s the formula for seedy malt loaves: > Of course, that’s not the full set of formulae, because it doesn’t tell you how to make ‘Seedy malt dough’, but that’s just another formula, which consists of flour, water, starter, salt and a multiseed ‘soaker’, where the starter and the soaker are the results of other formulae, which are (finally) made from basic ingredients1. I did consider reaching for the object oriented hammer at this point, but thought that I might be able to do everything I needed without leaving SQL. There's no way you can do something similar with spreadsheets? The example wasn't in enough detail for me to understand why not. The jump from spreadsheet to SQL seems massive in terms of ease of use.

rpod 8y ago
Especially since org-mode has a built-in spreadsheet system that supports formulas written in emacs calc or even arbitrary elisp: https://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-spreadsheet-intro.html https://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-spreadsheet-intro...
- ams6110 8y ago
  I really should learn that. I often find myself maniupulating text data in emacs, turning it into CSV or something that I can then copy/paste into a spreadsheet for calculations.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    You should. It's surprisingly good. You won't get pivot tables (at least until someone codes them up, which isn't out of the question in Emacs community), but for regular calculations it's awesome. Here's a short intro: https://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-spreadsheet-intro.html https://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-spreadsheet-intro.... Here's some documentation: https://orgmode.org/manual/The-Spreadsheet.html https://orgmode.org/manual/The-Spreadsheet.html And if you feel that TBLFMs are getting unwieldy, here's a bunch of features I absolutely love: https://orgmode.org/manual/Advanced-features.html https://orgmode.org/manual/Advanced-features.html. Turning on an extra column lets you name columns and cells, and have Org Mode recalculate the table automatically on any change, instead of on explicit command.
    - rpod 8y ago
      I didn't know about calculation marks, thanks for sharing! I use org spreadsheets to keep track of my D&D party's character sheets, so this should definitely come in handy :)
rahimnathwani 8y ago
"There's no way you can do something similar with spreadsheets?" You can, but the author is using tools that are more familiar to him, and hence more productive for him. Just like when doing some quick and dirty analysis, some people will reach for Excel, some for R, some for Pandas. None of those people is wrong. Some people go too far the other way: spend too much time learning new tools, and not enough creating things of value.
- kiallmacinnes 8y ago
  There is a downside to this though .. For this bakery, if you hire someone, theres a reasonable chance they can use a spreadsheet (maybe not add new recipes etc, but use..). I'd bet is very unlikely the same will be true of SQL and emacs. In tech/development, it's akin to someone building a system in some obscure language, because they are most productive and the only ones developing it today.. It's likely that system will end up being entirely replaced if the team maintaining it grows. (To be clear, I'm not saying the Bakery made a bad choice, or what using obscure languages is a bad choice, or that optimising for immediate productivity through familiar - to you - tools is bad.. just that there is lots to think about when building a new system..)
  - whynotminot 8y ago
    This is a very important point. Choose tools that are: (1) right for the project (2) right for the current team (3) right for the future team (3) might be hard given you don't know who joins later, and the engineers might also not have a say if they're not involved in hiring. But you can generally make decent guesses. The odds of the next baker you higher knowing SQL and emacs? Pretty low... the odds they know Excel? Probably higher. With that said, this was still fun. I enjoy seeing technology used in interesting ways, even if I don't think it's necessarily the most sustainable way to do something.
    - snazz 8y ago
      SQL gives the developer an option to build a front end of some sort, though, which might be able to get the ease of use to a similar level to that of Excel.
istjohn 8y ago
It can be much easier to do certain things with a proper database than in a spreadsheet if you are familiar with both technologies.

rpod 8y ago

Especially since org-mode has a built-in spreadsheet system that supports formulas written in emacs calc or even arbitrary elisp: https://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-spreadsheet-intro.html https://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-spreadsheet-intro...

ams6110 8y ago
I really should learn that. I often find myself maniupulating text data in emacs, turning it into CSV or something that I can then copy/paste into a spreadsheet for calculations.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  You should. It's surprisingly good. You won't get pivot tables (at least until someone codes them up, which isn't out of the question in Emacs community), but for regular calculations it's awesome. Here's a short intro: https://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-spreadsheet-intro.html https://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-spreadsheet-intro.... Here's some documentation: https://orgmode.org/manual/The-Spreadsheet.html https://orgmode.org/manual/The-Spreadsheet.html And if you feel that TBLFMs are getting unwieldy, here's a bunch of features I absolutely love: https://orgmode.org/manual/Advanced-features.html https://orgmode.org/manual/Advanced-features.html. Turning on an extra column lets you name columns and cells, and have Org Mode recalculate the table automatically on any change, instead of on explicit command.
  - rpod 8y ago
    I didn't know about calculation marks, thanks for sharing! I use org spreadsheets to keep track of my D&D party's character sheets, so this should definitely come in handy :)

rahimnathwani 8y ago

"There's no way you can do something similar with spreadsheets?" You can, but the author is using tools that are more familiar to him, and hence more productive for him. Just like when doing some quick and dirty analysis, some people will reach for Excel, some for R, some for Pandas. None of those people is wrong. Some people go too far the other way: spend too much time learning new tools, and not enough creating things of value.

kiallmacinnes 8y ago
There is a downside to this though .. For this bakery, if you hire someone, theres a reasonable chance they can use a spreadsheet (maybe not add new recipes etc, but use..). I'd bet is very unlikely the same will be true of SQL and emacs. In tech/development, it's akin to someone building a system in some obscure language, because they are most productive and the only ones developing it today.. It's likely that system will end up being entirely replaced if the team maintaining it grows. (To be clear, I'm not saying the Bakery made a bad choice, or what using obscure languages is a bad choice, or that optimising for immediate productivity through familiar - to you - tools is bad.. just that there is lots to think about when building a new system..)
- whynotminot 8y ago
  This is a very important point. Choose tools that are: (1) right for the project (2) right for the current team (3) right for the future team (3) might be hard given you don't know who joins later, and the engineers might also not have a say if they're not involved in hiring. But you can generally make decent guesses. The odds of the next baker you higher knowing SQL and emacs? Pretty low... the odds they know Excel? Probably higher. With that said, this was still fun. I enjoy seeing technology used in interesting ways, even if I don't think it's necessarily the most sustainable way to do something.
  - snazz 8y ago
    SQL gives the developer an option to build a front end of some sort, though, which might be able to get the ease of use to a similar level to that of Excel.

istjohn 8y ago

It can be much easier to do certain things with a proper database than in a spreadsheet if you are familiar with both technologies.