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This is Java 2.0 isn't it? "Write once, run everywhere". I wonder how one would solve linking to native libraries and the like through this. I still prefer ju

by tyfon 8y ago

This is Java 2.0 isn't it? "Write once, run everywhere". I wonder how one would solve linking to native libraries and the like through this. I still prefer just having the application source code available so one can compile it for a specific system.

austincheney 8y ago
No. Java is a language. WASM is a byte code compile target. A better comparison would be the JVM, such as a language like Scala that is definitely not Java still compiles to the JVM and can run anywhere there is a JVM. > I wonder how one would solve linking to native libraries Either use WASM outside the browser (I don't even know if that's a thing) or create some sort of import mechanism using JavaScript.
- cyphar 8y ago
  > No. Java is a language [...] A better comparison would be the JVM I think the point was that it's a reinvention of "write once run everywhere", which had its own problems at the time (such as native libraries). Java introduced the idea, and arguing the fact that the JVM is the reason why it works is a touch pedantic in this discussion. > Either use WASM outside the browser (I don't even know if that's a thing) That's what TFA is doing.
  - andrewshadura 8y ago
    Actually, Oberon first came with it, with JIT compilation of intermediate code into the target code.
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      The concept goes back all the way to Xerox PARC workstations and Pascal UCSD.
- mrec 8y ago
  > use WASM outside the browser (I don't even know if that's a thing) Not mainstream, but absolutely a thing. There's people even looking at running it in Ring 0. https://github.com/nebulet/nebulet https://github.com/nebulet/nebulet
- tyfon 8y ago
  I thought Java was both a language and a virtual machine target. You can compile programs written in other languages for it's VM like Clojure.
yarg 8y ago
It should be far more open and lightweight than java. Linking to native libraries isn't desirable - you don't want to leak your native vulnerabilities into your web browser. If you have the source however (as you mentioned), using Clang to compile to WASM should be a viable approach.
- tyfon 8y ago
  But if this is to be a "universal" binary it has to interface with the OS, the DE and other native programs not just the browser. If not you will end up with Swing type libraries that look very off compared to native applications. Same for games really. You usually need to be aware of what platform (hardware and software) your run on and adjust for that to be able to use it optimally.

by tyfon 8y ago

austincheney 8y ago

No. Java is a language. WASM is a byte code compile target. A better comparison would be the JVM, such as a language like Scala that is definitely not Java still compiles to the JVM and can run anywhere there is a JVM. > I wonder how one would solve linking to native libraries Either use WASM outside the browser (I don't even know if that's a thing) or create some sort of import mechanism using JavaScript.

cyphar 8y ago
> No. Java is a language [...] A better comparison would be the JVM I think the point was that it's a reinvention of "write once run everywhere", which had its own problems at the time (such as native libraries). Java introduced the idea, and arguing the fact that the JVM is the reason why it works is a touch pedantic in this discussion. > Either use WASM outside the browser (I don't even know if that's a thing) That's what TFA is doing.
- andrewshadura 8y ago
  Actually, Oberon first came with it, with JIT compilation of intermediate code into the target code.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    The concept goes back all the way to Xerox PARC workstations and Pascal UCSD.
mrec 8y ago
> use WASM outside the browser (I don't even know if that's a thing) Not mainstream, but absolutely a thing. There's people even looking at running it in Ring 0. https://github.com/nebulet/nebulet https://github.com/nebulet/nebulet
tyfon 8y ago
I thought Java was both a language and a virtual machine target. You can compile programs written in other languages for it's VM like Clojure.

yarg 8y ago

It should be far more open and lightweight than java. Linking to native libraries isn't desirable - you don't want to leak your native vulnerabilities into your web browser. If you have the source however (as you mentioned), using Clang to compile to WASM should be a viable approach.

tyfon 8y ago
But if this is to be a "universal" binary it has to interface with the OS, the DE and other native programs not just the browser. If not you will end up with Swing type libraries that look very off compared to native applications. Same for games really. You usually need to be aware of what platform (hardware and software) your run on and adjust for that to be able to use it optimally.