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Not if that person has posted: 1) MAJOR false market moving information regarding a buyout with funding committed that both never happened and turned out to be

Not if that person has posted: 1) MAJOR false market moving information regarding a buyout with funding committed that both never happened and turned out to be basically hot air to get back at shorts 2) AGREED to pre-approval of tweets about tesla so that "mistakes" wouldn't happen again 3) Promptly tweaks another FALSE and market moving prediction about 2019 production (500K), which almost immediately leads to the resignation of Tesla General Counsel and then has to be corrected. This is overdue. When I first saw the tweet, I was like how in the heck is this getting pre-approval clearance - especially to have such a big increase from guidance (400K guidance, 500K was updated guidance!) One alternative - have Elon pay out of pocket to all the sorts and anyone else who losses money acting on his tweet addiction.

simplicio 8y ago
"One alternative - have Elon pay out of pocket to all the sorts and anyone else who losses money acting on his tweet addiction." Isn't that what happened last time? Elon basically had to pay off investors who lost money due to the stock swings caused by his tweeting BS?
- SatvikBeri 8y ago
  No – Musk got a slap on the wrist ($20MM) compared to the market movement he caused, and none of that money goes to investors. The tweet moved Tesla's stock by $30/share, or temporarily added over 4 billion dollars to its market cap. It wouldn't really be possible to determine exactly who was damaged by his tweets, so no direct restitution is possible.
  - simplicio 8y ago
    The movement in the market cap is 4 billion, but the actual damage done was presumably much less than that, and was just to people who bought the stock during the brief period it was artificially inflated. In anycase, this article seems to disagree with you that the money wasn't paid out to investors: (https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/29/17918252/elon-musk-tesla-sec-securities-fraud-lawsuit-settlement-fine-penalty https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/29/17918252/elon-musk-tesla-...)
    - SatvikBeri 8y ago
      > In anycase, this article seems to disagree with you that the money wasn't paid out to investors: (https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/29/17918252/elon-musk-tesla-... https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/29/17918252/elon-musk-tesla-...) Didn't realize they were planning to pay that out to investors, thanks for the correction. The short-sellers also lost money due to Musk's fraud, though admittedly that's a small fraction of volume. To get an estimate of the damage done, the price went up by ~$40 share, with ~30 million shares traded. Let's assume the average buyer bought at the midpoint, so they lost $20/share. That's still $600 million transferred from people who believed Musk to people who doubted him – 15 times larger than the total fine to Musk + Tesla.
mlindner 8y ago
Shareholders have not been losing money from these tweets. The short sellers have been. The SEC should not be protecting those who are harming a company and who are not share holders. If anything the TSLA shareholders should sue the SEC for material damage because of these attacks. Finally, the guidance wasn't 400k, it was 300k-500k. So this was already public information.
- cat199 8y ago
  it's not about shareholders, it's about ensuring 'healthy markets'.. manipulating markets in either direction damages this. also: the terms of the agreement required him to have statements audited by counsel, this was apparently not - even if it was 100% spot-on with no ambiguity it would still be a violation
kgwgk 8y ago
“According to counsel, immediately upon seeing Musk’s 7:15 tweet for the first time after Musk had published it, Tesla’s “Designated Securities Counsel” arranged to meet with Musk, and they drafted Musk’s corrective 11:41 tweet together.” In unrelated news, Tesla announced a few hours later that this designated securities counsel was leaving the company. “A person familiar with the matter said he was not a good cultural fit with Tesla and wanted to return to his family and law practice in Washington, D.C.”

simplicio 8y ago

"One alternative - have Elon pay out of pocket to all the sorts and anyone else who losses money acting on his tweet addiction." Isn't that what happened last time? Elon basically had to pay off investors who lost money due to the stock swings caused by his tweeting BS?

SatvikBeri 8y ago
No – Musk got a slap on the wrist ($20MM) compared to the market movement he caused, and none of that money goes to investors. The tweet moved Tesla's stock by $30/share, or temporarily added over 4 billion dollars to its market cap. It wouldn't really be possible to determine exactly who was damaged by his tweets, so no direct restitution is possible.
- simplicio 8y ago
  The movement in the market cap is 4 billion, but the actual damage done was presumably much less than that, and was just to people who bought the stock during the brief period it was artificially inflated. In anycase, this article seems to disagree with you that the money wasn't paid out to investors: (https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/29/17918252/elon-musk-tesla-sec-securities-fraud-lawsuit-settlement-fine-penalty https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/29/17918252/elon-musk-tesla-...)
  - SatvikBeri 8y ago
    > In anycase, this article seems to disagree with you that the money wasn't paid out to investors: (https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/29/17918252/elon-musk-tesla-... https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/29/17918252/elon-musk-tesla-...) Didn't realize they were planning to pay that out to investors, thanks for the correction. The short-sellers also lost money due to Musk's fraud, though admittedly that's a small fraction of volume. To get an estimate of the damage done, the price went up by ~$40 share, with ~30 million shares traded. Let's assume the average buyer bought at the midpoint, so they lost $20/share. That's still $600 million transferred from people who believed Musk to people who doubted him – 15 times larger than the total fine to Musk + Tesla.

mlindner 8y ago

Shareholders have not been losing money from these tweets. The short sellers have been. The SEC should not be protecting those who are harming a company and who are not share holders. If anything the TSLA shareholders should sue the SEC for material damage because of these attacks. Finally, the guidance wasn't 400k, it was 300k-500k. So this was already public information.

cat199 8y ago
it's not about shareholders, it's about ensuring 'healthy markets'.. manipulating markets in either direction damages this. also: the terms of the agreement required him to have statements audited by counsel, this was apparently not - even if it was 100% spot-on with no ambiguity it would still be a violation

kgwgk 8y ago

“According to counsel, immediately upon seeing Musk’s 7:15 tweet for the first time after Musk had published it, Tesla’s “Designated Securities Counsel” arranged to meet with Musk, and they drafted Musk’s corrective 11:41 tweet together.” In unrelated news, Tesla announced a few hours later that this designated securities counsel was leaving the company. “A person familiar with the matter said he was not a good cultural fit with Tesla and wanted to return to his family and law practice in Washington, D.C.”