7 ms·

In general I don’t understand why people think that it’s ok to pollute every bit of space with noise of their choice (aka music). I view it as a big nuisance.

jniedrauer 8y ago
As with many things, it's profit-driven. As a related example, bars intentionally turn the music up loud enough that conversations are difficult because this causes patrons to buy more drinks.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  " loud enough that conversations are difficult because this causes patrons to buy more drinks" I know that I am weird but this makes me just want to run away,.
  - mrec 8y ago
    That doesn't make you weird, that makes you sane. You couldn't pay me to drink in bars like that.
    - brokenmachine 8y ago
      I'm the same, but I guess we're not the target market then. They want mindless binge drinkers, not talkers. It's weird because I feel I'd drink more when I'm comfortable, with music audible but not loud enough to drown out conversation or be too offensive.
      - ABCLAW 8y ago
        >They want mindless binge drinkers, not talkers. I'm friends with a lot of bar owners, and have had a few bars in the family in the past. Owners don't want someone getting plastered. We want the high functioning alcoholic who orders 3 pints to his partner's 1 and draws his friends to come to the pub with him every night or two.
        drilldrive 8y ago
        Seeing that you have experience in this sector, what is the purpose of a bar exactly? I never have gone to a bar, but always have had the assumption that bars are pretty much for getting plastered.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
        snakeboy 8y ago
        Nah, it's generally not very economical to do so. They serve primarily as a evening/weekend social hub, much like a restaurant. If you want to get plastered, you're much better off doing that in a private residence, in my experience.
        zbentley 8y ago
        > bars are pretty much for getting plastered They might actually be the least efficient retail or service venue for achieving that purpose.
        ABCLAW 8y ago
        If you want to get plastered, you can buy absurd amounts of alcohol by volume by purchasing cheap vodka and making it palatable by running it through a water filter to remove the bitter contaminants, then soak fruit in it to give it some flavour. For 30$, you can make yourself enough very nice booze, flavoured to your tastes, as you would be able to get for $300 or so at a bar. As for the direct question: different bars have different purposes, which is why there are so many different types. Bars in the financial district are often vehicles to waste money as a social display. Bars in the artistic sector are often vehicles to meet likeminded poor, but cool, artists and misfits. Bars in residential areas are normally places to relax and have a few pints. Bars in the nightlife areas are normally places to meet people. Some bars have good food. Some bars have cheap drinks. Some bars have great music. Some bars have familiar staff. There's a bar near where I used to live that offers manicures, male model servers and foot rubs. A few streets down is a sports bar which seems to employ exceptionally chesty waitresses. As you might imagine, the target demographic for each is different.
  - jniedrauer 8y ago
    This is a symposium of nerds so I suspect we will all agree with you.
  - Obi_Juan_Kenobi 8y ago
    Weird generally, but probably much less so here. It's not terribly surprising that people that choose to spend a lot of time interacting via text vs. conversation (e.g. programming) could have sensory processing disorders. Research in auditory processing disorder is relatively young, but at least some cases can be objectively diagnosed with FFR https://journals.lww.com/thehearingjournal/FullText/2016/08000/Embracing_the_Enigma_of_Auditory_Processing.12.aspx https://journals.lww.com/thehearingjournal/FullText/2016/080... If you have difficulties understanding speech, it's worth talking to an audiologist; you can effectively train for this! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29056453 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29056453 It's also worth noting that auditory processing disorder is associated with autism spectrum disorder. I'm particularly interested in the various etiologies of autism, and whether the traits of 'minor' autism are well explained by simple sensory or sensory-processing disorders.
    - maxxxxx 8y ago
      That’s really interesting. I definitely always had problems with understanding people in noisy environments so I often avoid them. I once went to an audiologist and based on the measurements my hearing is way above average. But I still have trouble listening to people.
- kd0amg 8y ago
  OTOH, I find this also makes it difficult to order drinks.
  - jdreyfuss 8y ago
    That encourages making the drink orders simpler too, which means the bartenders can have a higher throughput
- robertAngst 8y ago
  This is what made me realize 'my type of people' wouldnt be at the bar or club. As I was trying to scream in my friends ear, I looked around, just drunk. No one there was exchanging ideas. Obviously not all places are like this, but I didn't need to go back there.
mc32 8y ago
I haven’t been to malls in a while, so maybe it’s done stateside too, but some overseas malls go the extra effort and make sure they pump it up to 11 (as if at a bar after hours) It's as if they’re trying to drive traffic out of their stores instead of trying to keep them in.
- naravara 8y ago
  They're not trying to drive traffic out, they're trying to discourage loitering. If you're there to buy something you're likely to just go in and buy it despite the problem. And if you're on the fence, you're likely to just make a hasty decision instead of considering it if it's too loud to avoid. The big impediment though, is loiterers. If there is a problem with people loitering in or in front of your store that tends to drive away more people than the music will.
  - brokenmachine 8y ago
    Is that true? eg if I'm going to the mall to buy a shirt, I'm not really interested in how many "loiterers" are in the store browsing, I just want to go in and buy a shirt. If the music's offensive then I'm not going in at all. I'm sure they've done studies and focus groups and whatever, it's just odd to me that even with all the comments here to the contrary, businesses still think they're going to make more by making their stores unpleasant to go into. I have quite a bit of discretionary income so I would have thought I'd be a desired customer, but malls are so unpleasant that I do almost all of my buying online.
    - naravara 8y ago
      >Is that true? Depends. Some places just like it, but a lot of it is to shoo loiterers away. >eg if I'm going to the mall to buy a shirt, I'm not really interested in how many "loiterers" are in the store browsing, I just want to go in and buy a shirt. You're not thinking like a status conscious retailer. Some retailers prefer to not have people of certain races be seen associated with their brands. Their target market will be disinclined from shopping there. Also, in many cases loiterers actually just intimidate people.
coding123 8y ago
Same here. Actually that and perfume!
lesss365 8y ago
Being stuck on the subway several times a week with 1 or more people playing bass dependent music/game audio through their phone speakers... shoot me now.
nomel 8y ago
I think it shows the motivation of the business. They're creating an area of easy conversation, not concentration. By having something similar to the volume of conversation, you make conversation both "safe" and less distracting. Safe since speaking won't break some period of silence that is bound to happen. Breaking silence in a populated area requires a certain amount of social tension, "Why is everyone quiet? Will I bother people if I talk here?" etc. Less distracting since there is no period of silence for someone to break. The two people talking to each at a normal volume no longer become loudest thing in the room and the center of attention, they're just "lost in the noise". Many references can be found for these concepts, but I apologize for not providing them. Sound masking would be more ideal for concentration, but I'm sure the regular Starbucks patrons would be a bit confused at constant "hoooshhhh" sounds of a noise generator. You can find a few quiet coffee shops with very quiet music, but it's extremely awkward having a conversation in a place like this. I don't frequent these places with company.
- baroffoos 8y ago
  Absolutely. I avoid places that are dead silent because I don't really want some random employee listening to everything I say.
  - BEEdwards 8y ago
    Like you're that interesting.
    - baroffoos 8y ago
      Its not a security issue, its an awkwardness issue.
- jdietrich 8y ago
  >Sound masking would be more ideal for concentration, but I'm sure the regular Starbucks patrons would be a bit confused at constant "hoooshhhh" sounds of a noise generator. Sound masking is very dubious with respect to the ADA - you're deliberately making it harder to understand speech, which has obvious implications for hearing-impaired guests or employees.
eeeeeeeeeeeee 8y ago
I notice this with some people in general, that seems to always want to pollute the air with words when sometimes, there is beauty in silence. And then I get called "quiet" for not doing the same. Ugh. I know a few people that for some reason feel the need to narrate what I can see with my own eyes.
- ben509 8y ago
  I love the click-baity videos that carefully spell out what you can plainly see on the screen. Some people have a strong urge to socialize. I was on a long drive with one guy like that, there were four of us in the truck. He'd go for almost exactly 3 and a half minutes before he'd start talking, then get an "uh huh" response, and go awkwardly silent again. He was pretty consistent, this pattern repeated a good dozen times.
  - crooked-v 8y ago
    > I love the click-baity videos that carefully spell out what you can plainly see on the screen. Don't forget about the Nostalgia Critic-style "review" videos that are actually just an extended summary of the source material.
- brokenmachine 8y ago
  "The empty can rattles the most".
- bbradley406 8y ago
  “Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it kind, is it necessary, is it true, does it improve the silence?” ― Sathya Sai Baba
JadeNB 8y ago
> In general I don’t understand why people think that it’s ok to pollute every bit of space with noise of their choice (aka music). I view it as a big nuisance. I presume your comment was addressed to businesses, but I've noticed it for people as well; there seems to be a growing trend of believing that it's perfectly OK to listen to music, or watch TV, in public, without headphones, and without even a minimal attempt to lower the volume. I've noticed this increasingly over time in the US on trains and—this one really gets me—in the bathroom. (I suppose I can see watching a video in there, but without headphones?)
- brokenmachine 8y ago
  And on bushwalks, and on beaches. Those bloody bluetooth speakers are too cheap. It's so rude IMO to force everyone to be subjected to your noise.
randcraw 8y ago
I think it's because the alternative is silence, which many merchants see as setting a scene that is low energy and makes people lonely -- the last thing a retailer wants. Most retailers want to set a mood that attracts their target demographic groups. In some clothing stores that serve women age 30-40, they play pop music that was in vogue 10-15 years ago, when these customers were in their teens or twenties and had more youthful energy, knowing this music was a very big part of their lives. It wouldn't surprise me if music were also intended by PR/marketing types to put these customers in the same frame of mind they were in when they were most socially vulnerable (their teens?), when fashion was a necessary way to become more popular... or less unpopular, anyway.
- fancyfish 8y ago
  Hence the litany of companies advising/streaming music for businesses based on the ideas from those PR/marketing types. Creating playlists for consumer-driven companies to match their brand image, target audience, etc. Such as MoodMusic[1] [1] https://us.moodmedia.com/custom-music-business/ https://us.moodmedia.com/custom-music-business/
epicide 8y ago
O/T but people do the same thing with light, as well. e.g. just had a nighttime flight (so they turn off the cabin lights) where the person diagonally in front of me blinded me with his 100% brightness screen for hours. Couple that with the countless people using their phones at max brightness, and I would've just preferred keeping the cabin lights on.
- jbattle 8y ago
  My kids are in an orchestra and half the audience is holding up a big honking bright phone or tablet recording the whole thing. Its annoying
Taylor_OD 8y ago
I can't say why everyone does it but soft/moderate volume music does encourage people to talk to each other more. No one wants to break silence. People are more likely to talk when they think no one can hear them.
brokenmachine 8y ago
I agree. What's wrong with a bit of quiet reflection?
unethical_ban 8y ago
I go to the coffee shop and bar to avoid silence.
Zimahl 8y ago
My wife managed a department at a craft store and one day their sound system broke. She said that was worse than the repetitive music. Retail spaces are not designed for good acoustics and that music really drowns out a lot of even more nuisance sounds.
TuringNYC 8y ago
I've heard they do A/B testing on this across stores and across time for the same store. The treatment probably increased sales.

jniedrauer 8y ago

As with many things, it's profit-driven. As a related example, bars intentionally turn the music up loud enough that conversations are difficult because this causes patrons to buy more drinks.

maxxxxx 8y ago
" loud enough that conversations are difficult because this causes patrons to buy more drinks" I know that I am weird but this makes me just want to run away,.
- mrec 8y ago
  That doesn't make you weird, that makes you sane. You couldn't pay me to drink in bars like that.
  - brokenmachine 8y ago
    I'm the same, but I guess we're not the target market then. They want mindless binge drinkers, not talkers. It's weird because I feel I'd drink more when I'm comfortable, with music audible but not loud enough to drown out conversation or be too offensive.
    - ABCLAW 8y ago
      >They want mindless binge drinkers, not talkers. I'm friends with a lot of bar owners, and have had a few bars in the family in the past. Owners don't want someone getting plastered. We want the high functioning alcoholic who orders 3 pints to his partner's 1 and draws his friends to come to the pub with him every night or two.
      - drilldrive 8y ago
        Seeing that you have experience in this sector, what is the purpose of a bar exactly? I never have gone to a bar, but always have had the assumption that bars are pretty much for getting plastered.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
        snakeboy 8y ago
        Nah, it's generally not very economical to do so. They serve primarily as a evening/weekend social hub, much like a restaurant. If you want to get plastered, you're much better off doing that in a private residence, in my experience.
        zbentley 8y ago
        > bars are pretty much for getting plastered They might actually be the least efficient retail or service venue for achieving that purpose.
        ABCLAW 8y ago
        If you want to get plastered, you can buy absurd amounts of alcohol by volume by purchasing cheap vodka and making it palatable by running it through a water filter to remove the bitter contaminants, then soak fruit in it to give it some flavour. For 30$, you can make yourself enough very nice booze, flavoured to your tastes, as you would be able to get for $300 or so at a bar. As for the direct question: different bars have different purposes, which is why there are so many different types. Bars in the financial district are often vehicles to waste money as a social display. Bars in the artistic sector are often vehicles to meet likeminded poor, but cool, artists and misfits. Bars in residential areas are normally places to relax and have a few pints. Bars in the nightlife areas are normally places to meet people. Some bars have good food. Some bars have cheap drinks. Some bars have great music. Some bars have familiar staff. There's a bar near where I used to live that offers manicures, male model servers and foot rubs. A few streets down is a sports bar which seems to employ exceptionally chesty waitresses. As you might imagine, the target demographic for each is different.
- jniedrauer 8y ago
  This is a symposium of nerds so I suspect we will all agree with you.
- Obi_Juan_Kenobi 8y ago
  Weird generally, but probably much less so here. It's not terribly surprising that people that choose to spend a lot of time interacting via text vs. conversation (e.g. programming) could have sensory processing disorders. Research in auditory processing disorder is relatively young, but at least some cases can be objectively diagnosed with FFR https://journals.lww.com/thehearingjournal/FullText/2016/08000/Embracing_the_Enigma_of_Auditory_Processing.12.aspx https://journals.lww.com/thehearingjournal/FullText/2016/080... If you have difficulties understanding speech, it's worth talking to an audiologist; you can effectively train for this! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29056453 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29056453 It's also worth noting that auditory processing disorder is associated with autism spectrum disorder. I'm particularly interested in the various etiologies of autism, and whether the traits of 'minor' autism are well explained by simple sensory or sensory-processing disorders.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    That’s really interesting. I definitely always had problems with understanding people in noisy environments so I often avoid them. I once went to an audiologist and based on the measurements my hearing is way above average. But I still have trouble listening to people.
kd0amg 8y ago
OTOH, I find this also makes it difficult to order drinks.
- jdreyfuss 8y ago
  That encourages making the drink orders simpler too, which means the bartenders can have a higher throughput
robertAngst 8y ago
This is what made me realize 'my type of people' wouldnt be at the bar or club. As I was trying to scream in my friends ear, I looked around, just drunk. No one there was exchanging ideas. Obviously not all places are like this, but I didn't need to go back there.

mc32 8y ago

I haven’t been to malls in a while, so maybe it’s done stateside too, but some overseas malls go the extra effort and make sure they pump it up to 11 (as if at a bar after hours) It's as if they’re trying to drive traffic out of their stores instead of trying to keep them in.

naravara 8y ago
They're not trying to drive traffic out, they're trying to discourage loitering. If you're there to buy something you're likely to just go in and buy it despite the problem. And if you're on the fence, you're likely to just make a hasty decision instead of considering it if it's too loud to avoid. The big impediment though, is loiterers. If there is a problem with people loitering in or in front of your store that tends to drive away more people than the music will.
- brokenmachine 8y ago
  Is that true? eg if I'm going to the mall to buy a shirt, I'm not really interested in how many "loiterers" are in the store browsing, I just want to go in and buy a shirt. If the music's offensive then I'm not going in at all. I'm sure they've done studies and focus groups and whatever, it's just odd to me that even with all the comments here to the contrary, businesses still think they're going to make more by making their stores unpleasant to go into. I have quite a bit of discretionary income so I would have thought I'd be a desired customer, but malls are so unpleasant that I do almost all of my buying online.
  - naravara 8y ago
    >Is that true? Depends. Some places just like it, but a lot of it is to shoo loiterers away. >eg if I'm going to the mall to buy a shirt, I'm not really interested in how many "loiterers" are in the store browsing, I just want to go in and buy a shirt. You're not thinking like a status conscious retailer. Some retailers prefer to not have people of certain races be seen associated with their brands. Their target market will be disinclined from shopping there. Also, in many cases loiterers actually just intimidate people.

coding123 8y ago

Same here. Actually that and perfume!

lesss365 8y ago

Being stuck on the subway several times a week with 1 or more people playing bass dependent music/game audio through their phone speakers... shoot me now.

nomel 8y ago

I think it shows the motivation of the business. They're creating an area of easy conversation, not concentration. By having something similar to the volume of conversation, you make conversation both "safe" and less distracting. Safe since speaking won't break some period of silence that is bound to happen. Breaking silence in a populated area requires a certain amount of social tension, "Why is everyone quiet? Will I bother people if I talk here?" etc. Less distracting since there is no period of silence for someone to break. The two people talking to each at a normal volume no longer become loudest thing in the room and the center of attention, they're just "lost in the noise". Many references can be found for these concepts, but I apologize for not providing them. Sound masking would be more ideal for concentration, but I'm sure the regular Starbucks patrons would be a bit confused at constant "hoooshhhh" sounds of a noise generator. You can find a few quiet coffee shops with very quiet music, but it's extremely awkward having a conversation in a place like this. I don't frequent these places with company.

baroffoos 8y ago
Absolutely. I avoid places that are dead silent because I don't really want some random employee listening to everything I say.
- BEEdwards 8y ago
  Like you're that interesting.
  - baroffoos 8y ago
    Its not a security issue, its an awkwardness issue.
jdietrich 8y ago
>Sound masking would be more ideal for concentration, but I'm sure the regular Starbucks patrons would be a bit confused at constant "hoooshhhh" sounds of a noise generator. Sound masking is very dubious with respect to the ADA - you're deliberately making it harder to understand speech, which has obvious implications for hearing-impaired guests or employees.

eeeeeeeeeeeee 8y ago

I notice this with some people in general, that seems to always want to pollute the air with words when sometimes, there is beauty in silence. And then I get called "quiet" for not doing the same. Ugh. I know a few people that for some reason feel the need to narrate what I can see with my own eyes.

ben509 8y ago
I love the click-baity videos that carefully spell out what you can plainly see on the screen. Some people have a strong urge to socialize. I was on a long drive with one guy like that, there were four of us in the truck. He'd go for almost exactly 3 and a half minutes before he'd start talking, then get an "uh huh" response, and go awkwardly silent again. He was pretty consistent, this pattern repeated a good dozen times.
- crooked-v 8y ago
  > I love the click-baity videos that carefully spell out what you can plainly see on the screen. Don't forget about the Nostalgia Critic-style "review" videos that are actually just an extended summary of the source material.
brokenmachine 8y ago
"The empty can rattles the most".
bbradley406 8y ago
“Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it kind, is it necessary, is it true, does it improve the silence?” ― Sathya Sai Baba

JadeNB 8y ago

> In general I don’t understand why people think that it’s ok to pollute every bit of space with noise of their choice (aka music). I view it as a big nuisance. I presume your comment was addressed to businesses, but I've noticed it for people as well; there seems to be a growing trend of believing that it's perfectly OK to listen to music, or watch TV, in public, without headphones, and without even a minimal attempt to lower the volume. I've noticed this increasingly over time in the US on trains and—this one really gets me—in the bathroom. (I suppose I can see watching a video in there, but without headphones?)

brokenmachine 8y ago
And on bushwalks, and on beaches. Those bloody bluetooth speakers are too cheap. It's so rude IMO to force everyone to be subjected to your noise.

randcraw 8y ago

I think it's because the alternative is silence, which many merchants see as setting a scene that is low energy and makes people lonely -- the last thing a retailer wants. Most retailers want to set a mood that attracts their target demographic groups. In some clothing stores that serve women age 30-40, they play pop music that was in vogue 10-15 years ago, when these customers were in their teens or twenties and had more youthful energy, knowing this music was a very big part of their lives. It wouldn't surprise me if music were also intended by PR/marketing types to put these customers in the same frame of mind they were in when they were most socially vulnerable (their teens?), when fashion was a necessary way to become more popular... or less unpopular, anyway.

fancyfish 8y ago
Hence the litany of companies advising/streaming music for businesses based on the ideas from those PR/marketing types. Creating playlists for consumer-driven companies to match their brand image, target audience, etc. Such as MoodMusic[1] [1] https://us.moodmedia.com/custom-music-business/ https://us.moodmedia.com/custom-music-business/

epicide 8y ago

O/T but people do the same thing with light, as well. e.g. just had a nighttime flight (so they turn off the cabin lights) where the person diagonally in front of me blinded me with his 100% brightness screen for hours. Couple that with the countless people using their phones at max brightness, and I would've just preferred keeping the cabin lights on.

jbattle 8y ago
My kids are in an orchestra and half the audience is holding up a big honking bright phone or tablet recording the whole thing. Its annoying

Taylor_OD 8y ago

I can't say why everyone does it but soft/moderate volume music does encourage people to talk to each other more. No one wants to break silence. People are more likely to talk when they think no one can hear them.

brokenmachine 8y ago

I agree. What's wrong with a bit of quiet reflection?

unethical_ban 8y ago

I go to the coffee shop and bar to avoid silence.

Zimahl 8y ago

My wife managed a department at a craft store and one day their sound system broke. She said that was worse than the repetitive music. Retail spaces are not designed for good acoustics and that music really drowns out a lot of even more nuisance sounds.

TuringNYC 8y ago

I've heard they do A/B testing on this across stores and across time for the same store. The treatment probably increased sales.