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You have to remember that those are policies put in place by the contracting company, not Facebook or the engineers that make the tools that these people use.

thebradbain 8y ago
And yet if Facebook really valued these contractors as much as their regular employees, they would be hired as regular employees and not contractors. The fact such crucial staff are contractors shows how much Facebook values them.
- tjkrusinski 8y ago
  Yeah I don't disagree, ultimately though, it's a scaling problem. It's unrealistic to hire thousands of people in a high churn context. Cognizant, Accenture, et al are companies designed to do that and they do it well.
  - anigbrowl 8y ago
    'it's unrealistic' = 'we don't want to do it'
  - cmiles74 8y ago
    If they were treated better and had access to better tools, it might not be such a "high-churn context." Facebook makes literally billions of dollars, they could easily pay more and provide better support to these people. They simply do not wish to do so.
sjg007 8y ago
Facebook should mandate that the contractor companies have nicer and better policies. The use of "contractors" in general is a shell game of abject responsibility.
lucideer 8y ago
This isn't the case. Facebook takes a hands on approach to vendor management: many of these policies are agreed with vendors at contract negotiation stage, but even beyond that, many are set and enforced day-to-day by Facebook employees working as vendor managers. The other thing to note (and this is true of most outsourcing arrangements) is that, while engineers may respect these people and wish to provide good tooling, they're kept at arms length by management in terms of communication channels. Outsourced workers don't have access to internal ticketing tools, aren't party to any internal meetings on tooling (even those at management level in the contracted company). Engineers can mean well but that means little if they don't have any means to understand the needs of these indirect employees.
anigbrowl 8y ago
So sad that Facebook was forced to contract with such a terrible company that treats its workers so badly. Unfortunately a company like Facebook doesn't have any leverage when it comes to dealing with suppliers, they're just a helpless consumer of services in an unfair and inequitable world.
aeling 8y ago
If you work for Facebook, you may want to disclose your affiliation (at least in this thread). If not, I'm sorry for the mixup - I'm just guessing based on your username.
otterley 8y ago
As a purchaser, you're not bound to simply abdicate responsibility if your contractor misbehaves. You have the right and ability to choose contractors whose values are aligned with yours, and refuse to do business with those whose values don't. And you can reflect those values in the terms and conditions of the contract. See, for example, Apple's supplier code of conduct: https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/ https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/ Consider for yourself: if you hired a contractor to remodel your house, and you found out that the contractor wasn't giving their employees bathroom breaks, would you simply shrug your shoulders?
thatoneuser 8y ago
"You have to remember" - God this sounds exactly like what a Facebook shill would say to satiate his underlings.

thebradbain 8y ago

And yet if Facebook really valued these contractors as much as their regular employees, they would be hired as regular employees and not contractors. The fact such crucial staff are contractors shows how much Facebook values them.

tjkrusinski 8y ago
Yeah I don't disagree, ultimately though, it's a scaling problem. It's unrealistic to hire thousands of people in a high churn context. Cognizant, Accenture, et al are companies designed to do that and they do it well.
- anigbrowl 8y ago
  'it's unrealistic' = 'we don't want to do it'
- cmiles74 8y ago
  If they were treated better and had access to better tools, it might not be such a "high-churn context." Facebook makes literally billions of dollars, they could easily pay more and provide better support to these people. They simply do not wish to do so.

sjg007 8y ago

Facebook should mandate that the contractor companies have nicer and better policies. The use of "contractors" in general is a shell game of abject responsibility.

lucideer 8y ago

This isn't the case. Facebook takes a hands on approach to vendor management: many of these policies are agreed with vendors at contract negotiation stage, but even beyond that, many are set and enforced day-to-day by Facebook employees working as vendor managers. The other thing to note (and this is true of most outsourcing arrangements) is that, while engineers may respect these people and wish to provide good tooling, they're kept at arms length by management in terms of communication channels. Outsourced workers don't have access to internal ticketing tools, aren't party to any internal meetings on tooling (even those at management level in the contracted company). Engineers can mean well but that means little if they don't have any means to understand the needs of these indirect employees.

anigbrowl 8y ago

So sad that Facebook was forced to contract with such a terrible company that treats its workers so badly. Unfortunately a company like Facebook doesn't have any leverage when it comes to dealing with suppliers, they're just a helpless consumer of services in an unfair and inequitable world.

aeling 8y ago

If you work for Facebook, you may want to disclose your affiliation (at least in this thread). If not, I'm sorry for the mixup - I'm just guessing based on your username.

otterley 8y ago

As a purchaser, you're not bound to simply abdicate responsibility if your contractor misbehaves. You have the right and ability to choose contractors whose values are aligned with yours, and refuse to do business with those whose values don't. And you can reflect those values in the terms and conditions of the contract. See, for example, Apple's supplier code of conduct: https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/ https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/ Consider for yourself: if you hired a contractor to remodel your house, and you found out that the contractor wasn't giving their employees bathroom breaks, would you simply shrug your shoulders?

thatoneuser 8y ago

"You have to remember" - God this sounds exactly like what a Facebook shill would say to satiate his underlings.