12 ms·

Suicide instructions spliced into kids’ cartoons on YouTube and YouTube Kids

59 points by MrMember 8y ago

Gokenstein 8y ago
Arright, calm down Tipper. Let's not pretend Youtube is edgy or "Rock and Roll". Its the most banal money farm ever created. Let's focus on how they're driving content creators to actual suicide by arbitrarily cutting off their livelihoods.
- sctb 8y ago
  Would you mind nudging your comments upwards in terms of thoughtfulness and substance, please? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - Gokenstein 8y ago
    Bad faith moderation is why this site is a ghost town. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1461444816662477?journalCode=nmsa https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/146144481666247... How's that for upping the level of discourse?
ordinaryradical 8y ago
I want to know who is behind this content. Part of me thinks that a site with such open access is easily susceptible to this kind of sabotage from competitors, but getting this kind of dirt on your hands would be company-ending if it got back to you. The question is: why do people do this? Some of these channels aren't small so it can't be only some kids on 4chan having a laugh; some are giant content farms that seem to be managed as a coordinated, money-making business. See also: Elsagate.
- bonniemuffin 8y ago
  Relatedly, what is the monetization strategy for this sort of content? How could it possibly be worth more money than non-creepy children's content?
- tveita 8y ago
  Maybe this content is equally soul sucking for the creator and the consumer, and what started as a cynical click farm grew into Fight Club-esque detachment? Seems more likely than being part of an ongoing effort to destabilise society by disseminating disquietude and distrust, probably.
  - supernovae 8y ago
    We live in a society where fake news, anti-vaxxers and flat earthers run amock and are convincing more and more people that it's an "us vs them" and there is a giant evil government conspiracy behind everything. It's extremely cheap for say, Russia to throw a few bucks at some random bloggers, YouTubers, content creators and fringe groups causing enough distraction and chaos in society that all the good things we create end up being poisoned and society crumbles. (direct or indirect, it doesn't matter - advertising/sponsors/fake news/guest blog posts yaddy yaddy yadda) Videos like this have two courses of action - they cause turmoil - people see this as bad behavior that should be stopped and is immoral and corrupt but then they have a trigger response. The response to this content, conspiracy, turmoil justifies their means. When government/regulators/youtube step in and ban it then that is "big ol guvment and conspiracy and big brother violating their rights" Which begs the question of why in ANY democracy its citizens would be fighting to poison its democracy unless there is an external force funding, supporting and training these actors. Or is there just a growing psychosis we're ignoring of people with mental problems we're ignoring?
    - s_m_t 8y ago
      Anti-vaxxers and flat earthers are perfect fulfillments of American values. Watch just about any Hollywood movie or popular YA novel, isn't it always about a bunch of losers discovering a conspiracy, being ignored or hindered by all the supposed experts and authorities, and joining forces with other miscontents to stop it? Your Russia comment may have just been a throwaway idea, but it is also a good example of one of these stories. The literal losers of an election invent a conspiracy to rally themselves around because it is really hard to accept that they lost.
      - 8y ago
- microdrum 8y ago
  The man in the video goes by the name Filthy Frank. Here is at least one other video of him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bnlyr46WbRA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bnlyr46WbRA
  - defertoreptar 8y ago
    Sounds like ordinaryradical is asking who is the one splicing in these kind of clips into the kid's video.
  - MrEldritch 8y ago
    Perhaps a more relevant clip for this scenario would be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k0SmqbBIpQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k0SmqbBIpQ
ChrisGranger 8y ago
What has gone wrong in the mind of an adult who thinks it's funny to teach children how to commit suicide? I can't even wrap my head around this...
- ehserhtewrg 8y ago
  They aren't. “Remember, kids, sideways for attention, longways for results,” It's a joke.
  - ChrisGranger 8y ago
    It was a joke when Filthy Frank said it, but someone edited that clip into a video for children. There's nothing funny about that, at all.
tyingq 8y ago
Not quite as overt as "longways for results", but the cartoons I watched as a kid had plenty of suicidal references: https://youtu.be/PFDKWbg2xjg https://youtu.be/PFDKWbg2xjg
- jbrooksuk 8y ago
  It’s interesting to me that the majority of those suicides are by gun. Only one is a hanging which fails, two jump and another is implied on the train lines.
simion314 8y ago
Maybe whitelisting channels for youtube kids is the only solution.
- MrMember 8y ago
  I was kind of surprised that it didn't already operate on a whitelist. It seems irresponsible to market user generated content to kids without checking that the content is suitable for them.
- garduque 8y ago
  In my house there is no free access to YouTube for children. I wouldn't even whitelist a channel, because maybe somebody buys that channel and makes it weird. Maybe if I run across a video that I think is good we will watch it together, but there is no chance they get to click down the "recommended" rabbit hole unattended.
  - gscott 8y ago
    Teaching kids to be paranoid of everything isn't good either. If your child is too innocent they won't know the difference when someone ask them to do something that is wrong. Far before they're the age of 18 they need to be able to fend for themselves unless if you plan to keep your child under your wing forever.
jgamman 8y ago
Netflix at $10 a month seems like a bargain. Binge watching dragons' edge isn't great but at least you know it's _just_ dragon's edge... fuGoogle.
- shostack 8y ago
  Disney+ looks like it will be interesting. https://www.techradar.com/news/disney-streaming-service-disneys-all-inclusive-streaming-package-explained https://www.techradar.com/news/disney-streaming-service-disn...
ilovetux 8y ago
I've never liked advertising companies and have noticed a downward trend in the moral implications of different advertising business models. The least creepy IMO is when you would see a television or radio host cut away to promote a product which directly tied the content creator to the promotion. Later that became less common and advertisers approached content aggregators like Television networks who maintained a carefully curated collection of content this wasn't too bad. The current trend of advertising companies selling ads on non-curated, user generated content seems to have crossed a line where major problems are just inherent. I think a better arrangement would be if Google and Facebook allowed content creators and advertisers to directly connect thereby allowing each to choose what sort of brands match their particular image.
- ariwilson 8y ago
  If only there was a program with YouTube where you could advertise against preferred content... https://www.thinkwithgoogle.com/products/google-preferred/ https://www.thinkwithgoogle.com/products/google-preferred/
  - ilovetux 8y ago
    That's kind of half-way there, but there doesn't seem to be a way for advertisers to actually choose specific channels to maximize brand-fit just packages of channels deemed "brand safe" which is a very generic term. Also there is no direct connection between content creators and advertisers allowing both parties to safeguard their respective images. Edit: Typo
- 51lver 8y ago
  I'm pretty ok with linustechtips and benheckshow ads for this reason. It's done by the host IN the program, not some post production splicery that can be abused long after the content is created.
fzeroracer 8y ago
It's incredibly hard for me to wrap my mind around the who and why of this. It's obvious whatever efforts they're taking to curate YouTube for kids is not enough if bad actors can slip in such horrifying content into videos.
iforgotpassword 8y ago
I know a couple people who let their 4+ yo kids use smartphones and tablets with apps like YouTube kids. I can't wrap my head around it. If there'd be anything exclusively on YouTube I'd want kids to watch I'd probably download it first, check all the footage in its entirety and only then let them watch it, on the TV, not some small screen they hold right into their faces.
- beart 8y ago
  Parents who have both the time and energy to do that probably aren't going to watch YouTube anyway.
  - iforgotpassword 8y ago
    I dont think so; it's a one time investment for clips your kids might watch dozens of times. Sure, it's not feasable for following a channel that uploads daily, but let's say there's a bunch of children's songs with animation you consider well done. Spend an afternoon ripping them and have them watch it every now and then over the next year.
HNLurker2 8y ago
I laughed when I saw George muller (the guy behind filthy frank an awful channel about suicide, offensive jokes and dark humor). Quick run down he did in 2016-2017 free green screen and slowly after became a meme and put in videos. The guy now does music known as "joji".
who-knows95 8y ago
don't think you can blame joji for this? someone else using his old satire/edge videos in this way. but, i kinda wish they would public say who/what channel it was from. so we can look into it. i mean, i know Youtube has a huge issue with these wacked out game model "animated" kid videos.

59 points by MrMember 8y ago

Arright, calm down Tipper. Let's not pretend Youtube is edgy or "Rock and Roll". Its the most banal money farm ever created. Let's focus on how they're driving content creators to actual suicide by arbitrarily cutting off their livelihoods.

sctb 8y ago
Would you mind nudging your comments upwards in terms of thoughtfulness and substance, please? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- Gokenstein 8y ago
  Bad faith moderation is why this site is a ghost town. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1461444816662477?journalCode=nmsa https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/146144481666247... How's that for upping the level of discourse?

ordinaryradical 8y ago

I want to know who is behind this content. Part of me thinks that a site with such open access is easily susceptible to this kind of sabotage from competitors, but getting this kind of dirt on your hands would be company-ending if it got back to you. The question is: why do people do this? Some of these channels aren't small so it can't be only some kids on 4chan having a laugh; some are giant content farms that seem to be managed as a coordinated, money-making business. See also: Elsagate.

bonniemuffin 8y ago
Relatedly, what is the monetization strategy for this sort of content? How could it possibly be worth more money than non-creepy children's content?
tveita 8y ago
Maybe this content is equally soul sucking for the creator and the consumer, and what started as a cynical click farm grew into Fight Club-esque detachment? Seems more likely than being part of an ongoing effort to destabilise society by disseminating disquietude and distrust, probably.
- supernovae 8y ago
  We live in a society where fake news, anti-vaxxers and flat earthers run amock and are convincing more and more people that it's an "us vs them" and there is a giant evil government conspiracy behind everything. It's extremely cheap for say, Russia to throw a few bucks at some random bloggers, YouTubers, content creators and fringe groups causing enough distraction and chaos in society that all the good things we create end up being poisoned and society crumbles. (direct or indirect, it doesn't matter - advertising/sponsors/fake news/guest blog posts yaddy yaddy yadda) Videos like this have two courses of action - they cause turmoil - people see this as bad behavior that should be stopped and is immoral and corrupt but then they have a trigger response. The response to this content, conspiracy, turmoil justifies their means. When government/regulators/youtube step in and ban it then that is "big ol guvment and conspiracy and big brother violating their rights" Which begs the question of why in ANY democracy its citizens would be fighting to poison its democracy unless there is an external force funding, supporting and training these actors. Or is there just a growing psychosis we're ignoring of people with mental problems we're ignoring?
  - s_m_t 8y ago
    Anti-vaxxers and flat earthers are perfect fulfillments of American values. Watch just about any Hollywood movie or popular YA novel, isn't it always about a bunch of losers discovering a conspiracy, being ignored or hindered by all the supposed experts and authorities, and joining forces with other miscontents to stop it? Your Russia comment may have just been a throwaway idea, but it is also a good example of one of these stories. The literal losers of an election invent a conspiracy to rally themselves around because it is really hard to accept that they lost.
    - 8y ago
microdrum 8y ago
The man in the video goes by the name Filthy Frank. Here is at least one other video of him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bnlyr46WbRA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bnlyr46WbRA
- defertoreptar 8y ago
  Sounds like ordinaryradical is asking who is the one splicing in these kind of clips into the kid's video.
- MrEldritch 8y ago
  Perhaps a more relevant clip for this scenario would be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k0SmqbBIpQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k0SmqbBIpQ

ChrisGranger 8y ago

What has gone wrong in the mind of an adult who thinks it's funny to teach children how to commit suicide? I can't even wrap my head around this...

ehserhtewrg 8y ago
They aren't. “Remember, kids, sideways for attention, longways for results,” It's a joke.
- ChrisGranger 8y ago
  It was a joke when Filthy Frank said it, but someone edited that clip into a video for children. There's nothing funny about that, at all.

tyingq 8y ago

Not quite as overt as "longways for results", but the cartoons I watched as a kid had plenty of suicidal references: https://youtu.be/PFDKWbg2xjg https://youtu.be/PFDKWbg2xjg

jbrooksuk 8y ago
It’s interesting to me that the majority of those suicides are by gun. Only one is a hanging which fails, two jump and another is implied on the train lines.

simion314 8y ago

Maybe whitelisting channels for youtube kids is the only solution.

MrMember 8y ago
I was kind of surprised that it didn't already operate on a whitelist. It seems irresponsible to market user generated content to kids without checking that the content is suitable for them.
garduque 8y ago
In my house there is no free access to YouTube for children. I wouldn't even whitelist a channel, because maybe somebody buys that channel and makes it weird. Maybe if I run across a video that I think is good we will watch it together, but there is no chance they get to click down the "recommended" rabbit hole unattended.
- gscott 8y ago
  Teaching kids to be paranoid of everything isn't good either. If your child is too innocent they won't know the difference when someone ask them to do something that is wrong. Far before they're the age of 18 they need to be able to fend for themselves unless if you plan to keep your child under your wing forever.

jgamman 8y ago

Netflix at $10 a month seems like a bargain. Binge watching dragons' edge isn't great but at least you know it's _just_ dragon's edge... fuGoogle.

shostack 8y ago
Disney+ looks like it will be interesting. https://www.techradar.com/news/disney-streaming-service-disneys-all-inclusive-streaming-package-explained https://www.techradar.com/news/disney-streaming-service-disn...

ilovetux 8y ago

I've never liked advertising companies and have noticed a downward trend in the moral implications of different advertising business models. The least creepy IMO is when you would see a television or radio host cut away to promote a product which directly tied the content creator to the promotion. Later that became less common and advertisers approached content aggregators like Television networks who maintained a carefully curated collection of content this wasn't too bad. The current trend of advertising companies selling ads on non-curated, user generated content seems to have crossed a line where major problems are just inherent. I think a better arrangement would be if Google and Facebook allowed content creators and advertisers to directly connect thereby allowing each to choose what sort of brands match their particular image.

ariwilson 8y ago
If only there was a program with YouTube where you could advertise against preferred content... https://www.thinkwithgoogle.com/products/google-preferred/ https://www.thinkwithgoogle.com/products/google-preferred/
- ilovetux 8y ago
  That's kind of half-way there, but there doesn't seem to be a way for advertisers to actually choose specific channels to maximize brand-fit just packages of channels deemed "brand safe" which is a very generic term. Also there is no direct connection between content creators and advertisers allowing both parties to safeguard their respective images. Edit: Typo
51lver 8y ago
I'm pretty ok with linustechtips and benheckshow ads for this reason. It's done by the host IN the program, not some post production splicery that can be abused long after the content is created.

fzeroracer 8y ago

It's incredibly hard for me to wrap my mind around the who and why of this. It's obvious whatever efforts they're taking to curate YouTube for kids is not enough if bad actors can slip in such horrifying content into videos.

iforgotpassword 8y ago

I know a couple people who let their 4+ yo kids use smartphones and tablets with apps like YouTube kids. I can't wrap my head around it. If there'd be anything exclusively on YouTube I'd want kids to watch I'd probably download it first, check all the footage in its entirety and only then let them watch it, on the TV, not some small screen they hold right into their faces.

beart 8y ago
Parents who have both the time and energy to do that probably aren't going to watch YouTube anyway.
- iforgotpassword 8y ago
  I dont think so; it's a one time investment for clips your kids might watch dozens of times. Sure, it's not feasable for following a channel that uploads daily, but let's say there's a bunch of children's songs with animation you consider well done. Spend an afternoon ripping them and have them watch it every now and then over the next year.

HNLurker2 8y ago

I laughed when I saw George muller (the guy behind filthy frank an awful channel about suicide, offensive jokes and dark humor). Quick run down he did in 2016-2017 free green screen and slowly after became a meme and put in videos. The guy now does music known as "joji".

who-knows95 8y ago

don't think you can blame joji for this? someone else using his old satire/edge videos in this way. but, i kinda wish they would public say who/what channel it was from. so we can look into it. i mean, i know Youtube has a huge issue with these wacked out game model "animated" kid videos.