4 ms·

I get a certain amount of secrecy for their own protection, but this: > They are pressured not to discuss the emotional toll that their job takes on them, even

by _bxg1 8y ago

I get a certain amount of secrecy for their own protection, but this: > They are pressured not to discuss the emotional toll that their job takes on them, even with loved ones, leading to increased feelings of isolation and anxiety. Just doesn't make any sense. Not only does it not protect the moderators, I can't even figure out what the cynical corporate interest would be.

duado 8y ago
The cynical corporate interest is that they don’t really want more people knowing about this whole underworld.
- Tsubasachan 8y ago
  I think most people prefer not to think too much about this underworld. Like when somebody throws themselves in front of a train one of the first things the police does is put up barriers. And how do you even talk with your loved ones about this kind of work?
em3rgent0rdr 8y ago
Indeed, I'd think the cynical corporate interest would be to watch out for well-being of their workers and to prevent PR backlash from workers getting mental issues.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  "watch out for well-being of their workers" Usually the first corporate response is to sweep things under the rug and hope they will go away. Only if that doesn't work they will take real steps.
- egypturnash 8y ago
  That's the behavior of an enlightened psychopath who has realized how useful good will is. Facebook-the-company is an unenlightened psychopath who just wants money and power and doesn't care what anyone thinks about it.
fatbird 8y ago
If they end up suing Facebook for the mental harm they suffer from the job (and things like content moderators getting PTSD is a recognized thing), then lack of communicating their distress to their friends and family undercuts their case. "It couldn't have been that bad, you didn't even mention it to your mother or your husband."
- masonic 8y ago
  Wouldn't Facebook have chosen that particular location because of state or local laws that would prevent such a suit?
  - fatbird 8y ago
    Locations are chosen subject to a wide number of factors and influences. But even if local laws prevented such a lawsuit, a cautious manager might still issue the same directive: laws get overturned, etc. They might also be aiming to avoid bad PR (like EA Spouse's 15 minutes of fame).
duxup 8y ago
I'm guessing these moderators are outsourced through another company and that allows for a lot of unreasonable policies. I think it is generally understood that if you outsource you can get another company to enforce policies you'd otherwise be embarrassed by / legally responsible for if they worked direct for the company. So if something goes wrong "oh that wasn't us, we told that crazy outsourced company not to do it". The other company doesn't care as they're not selling a product and it doesn't hurt them. I worked for an outsourced customer service company when I was in college. The policies for their in house service and outsourced were explicitly different but customers were exactly the same. This was no mystery to anyone in the company. Policies for the outsourced companies were much much less generous to the customers. So much so at one point they retroactively changed their warranty policy that was enforced by outsourced customer service. In house stuck to the original rules, outsourced declared X, Y, Z wasn't covered. When they got caught after a year of saving money they declared that the company they outsourced service to did it wrong. Then after a time they'd switch back....
- mgoblu3 8y ago
  The article details that these moderators in the article were outsourced through Cognizant.
- solotronics 8y ago
  I actually know a Facebook moderator who lives in Austin. I found it very interesting that they do a lot of moderating of illegal political content in countries that have strict rules about it. She works directly for Facebook and gets the same perks as the other employees in ATX.
  - duxup 8y ago
    Working direct is always nice. I'm guessing the complexity of dealing with political stuff very much requires a different kind of moderator than say just gore.
  - cvwright 8y ago
    Whoa. Are you implying that Facebook employees in Austin are helping, say, the Chinese government censor pro-democracy groups? I'm not sure the employee's perks (or lack thereof) are the biggest story there.
Gpetrium 8y ago
This policy is probably to do with the company trying to ensure folks do not share stories that may end up on the internet/tv causing damage to the company (easier for a 3rd party, like a family member to raise the issue on the internet/tv without a financial, employment damage). I would be surprised if they couldn't speak a medical professional about it. It would be interesting to see whether the same policy exists for work such as 911 dispatchers.
smsm42 8y ago
It makes sense in corporate reptiloid sort of way. If you don't discuss this with people outside of the system, nobody would tell you "Dude, you are being abused! It's not worth it! Look at what this job is doing to you - and for what, for minimal wage?" If you can only discuss it only with people in the same boat, it looks like it's a normal situation, acceptable - everybody has it the same way, so it must be just how the things work, nothing to be done about it, no use to try and improve it or look for something better.

by _bxg1 8y ago

duado 8y ago

The cynical corporate interest is that they don’t really want more people knowing about this whole underworld.

Tsubasachan 8y ago
I think most people prefer not to think too much about this underworld. Like when somebody throws themselves in front of a train one of the first things the police does is put up barriers. And how do you even talk with your loved ones about this kind of work?

em3rgent0rdr 8y ago

Indeed, I'd think the cynical corporate interest would be to watch out for well-being of their workers and to prevent PR backlash from workers getting mental issues.

maxxxxx 8y ago
"watch out for well-being of their workers" Usually the first corporate response is to sweep things under the rug and hope they will go away. Only if that doesn't work they will take real steps.
egypturnash 8y ago
That's the behavior of an enlightened psychopath who has realized how useful good will is. Facebook-the-company is an unenlightened psychopath who just wants money and power and doesn't care what anyone thinks about it.

fatbird 8y ago

If they end up suing Facebook for the mental harm they suffer from the job (and things like content moderators getting PTSD is a recognized thing), then lack of communicating their distress to their friends and family undercuts their case. "It couldn't have been that bad, you didn't even mention it to your mother or your husband."

masonic 8y ago
Wouldn't Facebook have chosen that particular location because of state or local laws that would prevent such a suit?
- fatbird 8y ago
  Locations are chosen subject to a wide number of factors and influences. But even if local laws prevented such a lawsuit, a cautious manager might still issue the same directive: laws get overturned, etc. They might also be aiming to avoid bad PR (like EA Spouse's 15 minutes of fame).

duxup 8y ago

I'm guessing these moderators are outsourced through another company and that allows for a lot of unreasonable policies. I think it is generally understood that if you outsource you can get another company to enforce policies you'd otherwise be embarrassed by / legally responsible for if they worked direct for the company. So if something goes wrong "oh that wasn't us, we told that crazy outsourced company not to do it". The other company doesn't care as they're not selling a product and it doesn't hurt them. I worked for an outsourced customer service company when I was in college. The policies for their in house service and outsourced were explicitly different but customers were exactly the same. This was no mystery to anyone in the company. Policies for the outsourced companies were much much less generous to the customers. So much so at one point they retroactively changed their warranty policy that was enforced by outsourced customer service. In house stuck to the original rules, outsourced declared X, Y, Z wasn't covered. When they got caught after a year of saving money they declared that the company they outsourced service to did it wrong. Then after a time they'd switch back....

mgoblu3 8y ago
The article details that these moderators in the article were outsourced through Cognizant.
solotronics 8y ago
I actually know a Facebook moderator who lives in Austin. I found it very interesting that they do a lot of moderating of illegal political content in countries that have strict rules about it. She works directly for Facebook and gets the same perks as the other employees in ATX.
- duxup 8y ago
  Working direct is always nice. I'm guessing the complexity of dealing with political stuff very much requires a different kind of moderator than say just gore.
- cvwright 8y ago
  Whoa. Are you implying that Facebook employees in Austin are helping, say, the Chinese government censor pro-democracy groups? I'm not sure the employee's perks (or lack thereof) are the biggest story there.

Gpetrium 8y ago

This policy is probably to do with the company trying to ensure folks do not share stories that may end up on the internet/tv causing damage to the company (easier for a 3rd party, like a family member to raise the issue on the internet/tv without a financial, employment damage). I would be surprised if they couldn't speak a medical professional about it. It would be interesting to see whether the same policy exists for work such as 911 dispatchers.

smsm42 8y ago

It makes sense in corporate reptiloid sort of way. If you don't discuss this with people outside of the system, nobody would tell you "Dude, you are being abused! It's not worth it! Look at what this job is doing to you - and for what, for minimal wage?" If you can only discuss it only with people in the same boat, it looks like it's a normal situation, acceptable - everybody has it the same way, so it must be just how the things work, nothing to be done about it, no use to try and improve it or look for something better.