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This isn't particularly surprising to anyone who has been online for a while - sometimes you'd see gruesome stuff even on forums, and then you also had the cult

This isn't particularly surprising to anyone who has been online for a while - sometimes you'd see gruesome stuff even on forums, and then you also had the culture on sites like 4chan. Moderation isn't something that one could really escape from even about 20 years ago, just now we're more cognizant of the effects of poor moderation and users are more aware of how people behave when moderators/admins are pushed to the boundaries of the set rules.

duxup 8y ago
It's not a surprise now. It is a big contrast as far as I think what folks thought in the early days of user content.
tenpies 8y ago
I think the big difference is how oversensitive society is now. Before, your moderators just had to deal with outright illegal content, maybe a flame war or two (or just move the discussion to the flame war section). If you ran into anything as a user, it was understood that you should report it and that the moderators would get to it with varying degrees of speed. There was no expectation of a perfectly safe bubble. Now, if even the most milquetoast comment which could possible be offensive if I assume the absolute worst about the poster, isn't moderated post-hate, you'll be reported to the media who will almost certainly archive it and use it to fill the next 1 - 24 hours of their outrage media cycle. I honestly see a future where people file lawsuits against web sites for not moderating enough, a failure to keep safe or sort of negligence. "Your web site gave me PTSD or enabled cyber-bulling". What's worst, they'll win.
- komali2 8y ago
  I think this argument has been being made by people for two thousand years (this generation is too soft! Uphill both ways in the snow!) but I've yet to see a causation demonstrated.
  - mmsimanga 8y ago
    Just watch an old movie from about the 90s and you will be surprised how politically incorrect some of those movies were. They are just a reflection of what was acceptable in those days.
    - Pfhreak 8y ago
      And in 20 years we'll watch media from this decade and be shocked at what we put in our media. Society advances, culture changes. Viewing the past through the lens of the present is always going to be a different exercise than viewing the present through the lens of the present.
      - reaperducer 8y ago
        Society advances, culture changes. I agree with the second part of that. Not necessarily the first. Viewing the past through the lens of the present is always going to be a different exercise than viewing the present through the lens of the present. Unfortunately, we live in a culture of intolerance. A few months ago there was a race car driver who lost his sponsorship because of something his father said before the driver was even born.
        komali2 8y ago
        >we live in a culture of intolerance This is quite the theory - do you have more backing other than the single instance you've just quoted? And what is "intolerance" and why is this "bad"?
        reaperducer 8y ago
        You're asking for a lot in a very small space. HN isn't the proper forum to discuss this, and I can't take that much time away from work to educate you. If you can't see it for yourself, then there's nothing I can do for you.
013a 8y ago
The the scale of the platform is the differentiator. If you're moderating a few hundred or thousand people on a forum, especially a site with a constrained vision and purpose, you're simply not encountering content and behavior like this on a regular basis, if ever. Now, look at facebook. Billions of users. No constrained vision or purpose to being there; if you're human, you're a customer, and human behavior can be pretty gross at the fringes. And maybe most importantly; they can't just Ban whatever people or content they want, due to both a profit motive and public outrage due to their preeminent position. This isn't a problem that has already existed, because the problem is with the Scale, not with the Behavior.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- jachee 8y ago
  > if you're human, you're a customer No. If you're human, you're a product. Can't have the product spoiled, now, can we?
spurgu 8y ago
Yeah the problem today compared to BBS's/forums 10-20 years ago is that there are "smart" algorithms that will escalate the spread of fake news and shit content, compared to having everything equally exposed to everyone.

duxup 8y ago

It's not a surprise now. It is a big contrast as far as I think what folks thought in the early days of user content.

tenpies 8y ago

I think the big difference is how oversensitive society is now. Before, your moderators just had to deal with outright illegal content, maybe a flame war or two (or just move the discussion to the flame war section). If you ran into anything as a user, it was understood that you should report it and that the moderators would get to it with varying degrees of speed. There was no expectation of a perfectly safe bubble. Now, if even the most milquetoast comment which could possible be offensive if I assume the absolute worst about the poster, isn't moderated post-hate, you'll be reported to the media who will almost certainly archive it and use it to fill the next 1 - 24 hours of their outrage media cycle. I honestly see a future where people file lawsuits against web sites for not moderating enough, a failure to keep safe or sort of negligence. "Your web site gave me PTSD or enabled cyber-bulling". What's worst, they'll win.

komali2 8y ago
I think this argument has been being made by people for two thousand years (this generation is too soft! Uphill both ways in the snow!) but I've yet to see a causation demonstrated.
- mmsimanga 8y ago
  Just watch an old movie from about the 90s and you will be surprised how politically incorrect some of those movies were. They are just a reflection of what was acceptable in those days.
  - Pfhreak 8y ago
    And in 20 years we'll watch media from this decade and be shocked at what we put in our media. Society advances, culture changes. Viewing the past through the lens of the present is always going to be a different exercise than viewing the present through the lens of the present.
    - reaperducer 8y ago
      Society advances, culture changes. I agree with the second part of that. Not necessarily the first. Viewing the past through the lens of the present is always going to be a different exercise than viewing the present through the lens of the present. Unfortunately, we live in a culture of intolerance. A few months ago there was a race car driver who lost his sponsorship because of something his father said before the driver was even born.
      - komali2 8y ago
        >we live in a culture of intolerance This is quite the theory - do you have more backing other than the single instance you've just quoted? And what is "intolerance" and why is this "bad"?
        reaperducer 8y ago
        You're asking for a lot in a very small space. HN isn't the proper forum to discuss this, and I can't take that much time away from work to educate you. If you can't see it for yourself, then there's nothing I can do for you.

013a 8y ago

The the scale of the platform is the differentiator. If you're moderating a few hundred or thousand people on a forum, especially a site with a constrained vision and purpose, you're simply not encountering content and behavior like this on a regular basis, if ever. Now, look at facebook. Billions of users. No constrained vision or purpose to being there; if you're human, you're a customer, and human behavior can be pretty gross at the fringes. And maybe most importantly; they can't just Ban whatever people or content they want, due to both a profit motive and public outrage due to their preeminent position. This isn't a problem that has already existed, because the problem is with the Scale, not with the Behavior.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
jachee 8y ago
> if you're human, you're a customer No. If you're human, you're a product. Can't have the product spoiled, now, can we?

spurgu 8y ago

Yeah the problem today compared to BBS's/forums 10-20 years ago is that there are "smart" algorithms that will escalate the spread of fake news and shit content, compared to having everything equally exposed to everyone.