4 ms·

I wish this place was a bit more hospitable to literary fiction.

jihadjihad 8y ago
It can be, depending on the particular thread. I'll speak for myself, but I find it incredibly difficult to read technical/business/pop-nonfic/etc. books in my free time. After a long day programming the last thing I want to do is read the literary equivalent of a TED talk. My bookshelf is a place where the "red dragon" Compilers book can peacefully coexist with Cannery Row--it's just that, more often that not, I reach for the fiction.
- peruvian 8y ago
  I used to be vehemtly against self help/business books but the podcast Bookworms helped me find some valuable ones. The hosts go through a book and summarize or talk about it. But in general I agree - I don’t want to read about I can be more “efficient” at work during my leisure time. I’d rather read a novel or history book.
  - fefehern 8y ago
    Do you have the website? Get different results searching for Bookworms podcasts
    - peruvian 8y ago
      Bookworm.fm - was singular rather than plural. Disclaimer is that both authors are self employed-ish and busier than most regular office workers are.
- throwawaymath 8y ago
  I wish I was like that. I have the opposite problem - I have great difficulty reading fiction, and all the nonfiction I read consists of math textbooks and papers. I used to love reading novels when I was younger. I read them voraciously. These days I find it incredibly hard to sit down and read novels, even when they're "good".
criddell 8y ago
The world in general doesn't think much of literary fiction. If it did, then it would just be called fiction.
begun_comma 8y ago
Yes, you can learn more from Moby Dick than 90% of the books on this list.
- cjarrett 8y ago
  Additionally, Melville's "Confidence-Man" might best describe the past couple of years... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Confidence-Man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Confidence-Man
cjarrett 8y ago
I try to specialize in American authors--but If you want a random selection of my favorites to recommend in order to understand this modern era of America, I present these three: J.R. - William Gaddis (1975) (A very nice blog post on it here: https://biblioklept.org/2012/02/09/i-riff-again-on-william-gaddiss-enormous-novel-jr-this-time-after-finishing-it/ https://biblioklept.org/2012/02/09/i-riff-again-on-william-g...) J R, ambitious sixth-grader in torn sneakers, bred on the challenge of "free enterprise" and fired up by heady mail-order promises of "success." His teachers would rather be elsewhere, his principal doubles as a bank president, his Long Island classroom mirrors the world he sees around him -- a world of public relations and private betrayals where everything (and everyone) wears a price tag, a world of "deals" where honesty is no substitute for experience, and the letter of the law flouts its spirit at every turn. Operating from the remote anonymity of phone booths and the local post office, with beachheads in a seedy New York cafeteria and a catastrophic, carton-crammed tenement on East 96th Street, J R parlays a deal for thousands of surplus Navy picnic forks through penny stock flyers and a distant textile-mill bankruptcy into a nationwide, hydra-headed "family of companies." Bleeding Edge - Thomas Pynchon (2013) It deals with government paranoia, conspiracy theories for 9/11, It uses Computer and ‘deepweb’ Internet as the framing device for the novel—which is why I bring it up in this context. It somehow fits fairly nicely into the political thriller genre, while addressing modern concerns. Don Delillo - White Noise (1985) While Jack Gladney is an intellectual academic, an expert in the unlikely field of “Hitler studies” (and something of a fraud, to boot), he’s also a pretty normal dad. Casual reviewers of White Noise tend to overlook the sublime banality of domesticity represented in DeLillo’s signature novel: Gladney is an excellent father to his many kids and step-kids, and DeLillo draws their relationships with a realism that belies–and perhaps helps to create–the novel’s satirical bent.
- cjarrett 8y ago
  In particular this set of points hits J.R.'s relevance to modern america (https://biblioklept.org/2012/01/23/i-riff-on-william-gaddiss-enormous-novel-j-r-from-about-half-way-through/ https://biblioklept.org/2012/01/23/i-riff-on-william-gaddiss...): 3. What is J R about? Money. Capitalism. Art. Education. Desperate people. America. 4. The question posed in #3 is a fair question, but probably not the right question, or at least not the right first question about J R. Instead—What is the form of J R—How is J R? 5. A simple answer is that the novel is almost entirely dialog, usually unattributed (although made clear once one learns the reading rules for J R). These episodes of dialogue are couched in brief, pristine, precise, concrete—yet poetic—descriptions of setting. Otherwise, no exposition. Reminiscent of a movie script, almost. 6. A more complex answer: J R, overstuffed with voices, characters (shadows and doubles), and motifs, is an opera, or a riff on an opera, at least. 7. A few of the motifs in J R: paper, shoes, opera, T.V. equipment, entropy, chaos, novels, failure, frustration, mechanization, noise, hunting, war, music, commercials, trains, eruptions of nonconformity, advertising, the rotten shallowness of modern life . . . 8. Okay, so maybe that list of motifs dipped into themes. It’s certainly incomplete (but my reading of J R is incomplete, so . . .) 9. Well hang on so what’s it about? What happens?—This is a hard question to answer even though there are plenty of concrete answers. A little more riffage then— 10. Our eponymous hero, snot-nosed JR (of the sixth grade) amasses a paper fortune by trading cheap stocks. He does this from a payphone (that he engineers to have installed!) in school. 11. JR’s unwilling agent—his emissary into the adult world—is Edward Bast, a struggling young composer who is fired from his teaching position at JR’s school after going (quite literally) off script during a lesson. 12. Echoes of Bast: Thomas Eigen, struggling writer. Jack Gibbs, struggling writer human. Gibbs, a frustrated, exasperated, alcoholic intellectual is perhaps the soul of the book. (Or at least my favorite character). 13. Characters in J R tend to be frustrated or oblivious. The oblivious characters tend to be rich and powerful; the frustrated tend to be artistic and intellectual. 14. Hence, satire: J R is very, very funny. 15. J R was published over 35 years ago, but its take on Wall Street, greed, the mechanization of education, the marginalization of art in society, and the increasing anti-intellectualism in America is more relevant than ever. 16. So, even when J R is funny, it’s also deeply sad. 18. Young JR is a fascinating study, an innocent of sorts who attempts to navigate the ridiculous rules of his society. He is immature; he lacks human experience (he’s only 11, after all), and, like most young children, lacks empathy or foresight. He’s the perfect predatory capitalist. 19. All the love (whether familial or romantic or sexual) in J R (thus far, anyway) is frustrated, blocked, barred, delayed, interrupted . . . 20. I’m particularly fascinated by the scenes in JR’s school, particularly the ones involving Principal Whiteback, who, in addition to his educational duties, is also president of a local bank. Whiteback is a consummate yes man; he babbles out in an unending stammer of doubletalk; he’s a fount of delicious ironic humor. Sadly though, he’s also absolutely real, the kind of educational administrator who thinks a school should be run like a corporation.

It can be, depending on the particular thread. I'll speak for myself, but I find it incredibly difficult to read technical/business/pop-nonfic/etc. books in my free time. After a long day programming the last thing I want to do is read the literary equivalent of a TED talk. My bookshelf is a place where the "red dragon" Compilers book can peacefully coexist with Cannery Row--it's just that, more often that not, I reach for the fiction.

peruvian 8y ago
I used to be vehemtly against self help/business books but the podcast Bookworms helped me find some valuable ones. The hosts go through a book and summarize or talk about it. But in general I agree - I don’t want to read about I can be more “efficient” at work during my leisure time. I’d rather read a novel or history book.
- fefehern 8y ago
  Do you have the website? Get different results searching for Bookworms podcasts
  - peruvian 8y ago
    Bookworm.fm - was singular rather than plural. Disclaimer is that both authors are self employed-ish and busier than most regular office workers are.
throwawaymath 8y ago
I wish I was like that. I have the opposite problem - I have great difficulty reading fiction, and all the nonfiction I read consists of math textbooks and papers. I used to love reading novels when I was younger. I read them voraciously. These days I find it incredibly hard to sit down and read novels, even when they're "good".

criddell 8y ago

The world in general doesn't think much of literary fiction. If it did, then it would just be called fiction.

begun_comma 8y ago

Yes, you can learn more from Moby Dick than 90% of the books on this list.

cjarrett 8y ago
Additionally, Melville's "Confidence-Man" might best describe the past couple of years... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Confidence-Man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Confidence-Man

cjarrett 8y ago

I try to specialize in American authors--but If you want a random selection of my favorites to recommend in order to understand this modern era of America, I present these three: J.R. - William Gaddis (1975) (A very nice blog post on it here: https://biblioklept.org/2012/02/09/i-riff-again-on-william-gaddiss-enormous-novel-jr-this-time-after-finishing-it/ https://biblioklept.org/2012/02/09/i-riff-again-on-william-g...) J R, ambitious sixth-grader in torn sneakers, bred on the challenge of "free enterprise" and fired up by heady mail-order promises of "success." His teachers would rather be elsewhere, his principal doubles as a bank president, his Long Island classroom mirrors the world he sees around him -- a world of public relations and private betrayals where everything (and everyone) wears a price tag, a world of "deals" where honesty is no substitute for experience, and the letter of the law flouts its spirit at every turn. Operating from the remote anonymity of phone booths and the local post office, with beachheads in a seedy New York cafeteria and a catastrophic, carton-crammed tenement on East 96th Street, J R parlays a deal for thousands of surplus Navy picnic forks through penny stock flyers and a distant textile-mill bankruptcy into a nationwide, hydra-headed "family of companies." Bleeding Edge - Thomas Pynchon (2013) It deals with government paranoia, conspiracy theories for 9/11, It uses Computer and ‘deepweb’ Internet as the framing device for the novel—which is why I bring it up in this context. It somehow fits fairly nicely into the political thriller genre, while addressing modern concerns. Don Delillo - White Noise (1985) While Jack Gladney is an intellectual academic, an expert in the unlikely field of “Hitler studies” (and something of a fraud, to boot), he’s also a pretty normal dad. Casual reviewers of White Noise tend to overlook the sublime banality of domesticity represented in DeLillo’s signature novel: Gladney is an excellent father to his many kids and step-kids, and DeLillo draws their relationships with a realism that belies–and perhaps helps to create–the novel’s satirical bent.

cjarrett 8y ago
In particular this set of points hits J.R.'s relevance to modern america (https://biblioklept.org/2012/01/23/i-riff-on-william-gaddiss-enormous-novel-j-r-from-about-half-way-through/ https://biblioklept.org/2012/01/23/i-riff-on-william-gaddiss...): 3. What is J R about? Money. Capitalism. Art. Education. Desperate people. America. 4. The question posed in #3 is a fair question, but probably not the right question, or at least not the right first question about J R. Instead—What is the form of J R—How is J R? 5. A simple answer is that the novel is almost entirely dialog, usually unattributed (although made clear once one learns the reading rules for J R). These episodes of dialogue are couched in brief, pristine, precise, concrete—yet poetic—descriptions of setting. Otherwise, no exposition. Reminiscent of a movie script, almost. 6. A more complex answer: J R, overstuffed with voices, characters (shadows and doubles), and motifs, is an opera, or a riff on an opera, at least. 7. A few of the motifs in J R: paper, shoes, opera, T.V. equipment, entropy, chaos, novels, failure, frustration, mechanization, noise, hunting, war, music, commercials, trains, eruptions of nonconformity, advertising, the rotten shallowness of modern life . . . 8. Okay, so maybe that list of motifs dipped into themes. It’s certainly incomplete (but my reading of J R is incomplete, so . . .) 9. Well hang on so what’s it about? What happens?—This is a hard question to answer even though there are plenty of concrete answers. A little more riffage then— 10. Our eponymous hero, snot-nosed JR (of the sixth grade) amasses a paper fortune by trading cheap stocks. He does this from a payphone (that he engineers to have installed!) in school. 11. JR’s unwilling agent—his emissary into the adult world—is Edward Bast, a struggling young composer who is fired from his teaching position at JR’s school after going (quite literally) off script during a lesson. 12. Echoes of Bast: Thomas Eigen, struggling writer. Jack Gibbs, struggling writer human. Gibbs, a frustrated, exasperated, alcoholic intellectual is perhaps the soul of the book. (Or at least my favorite character). 13. Characters in J R tend to be frustrated or oblivious. The oblivious characters tend to be rich and powerful; the frustrated tend to be artistic and intellectual. 14. Hence, satire: J R is very, very funny. 15. J R was published over 35 years ago, but its take on Wall Street, greed, the mechanization of education, the marginalization of art in society, and the increasing anti-intellectualism in America is more relevant than ever. 16. So, even when J R is funny, it’s also deeply sad. 18. Young JR is a fascinating study, an innocent of sorts who attempts to navigate the ridiculous rules of his society. He is immature; he lacks human experience (he’s only 11, after all), and, like most young children, lacks empathy or foresight. He’s the perfect predatory capitalist. 19. All the love (whether familial or romantic or sexual) in J R (thus far, anyway) is frustrated, blocked, barred, delayed, interrupted . . . 20. I’m particularly fascinated by the scenes in JR’s school, particularly the ones involving Principal Whiteback, who, in addition to his educational duties, is also president of a local bank. Whiteback is a consummate yes man; he babbles out in an unending stammer of doubletalk; he’s a fount of delicious ironic humor. Sadly though, he’s also absolutely real, the kind of educational administrator who thinks a school should be run like a corporation.