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It is bizarre that we are discussing making cars entirely autonomous as a way of improving safety, but refuse to consider the much more feasible option of techn

by jnty 8y ago

It is bizarre that we are discussing making cars entirely autonomous as a way of improving safety, but refuse to consider the much more feasible option of technologically restricting speed on public roads.

lotsofpulp 8y ago
It might be technically feasible, but not politically feasible. While it is a no brainer to say every vehicle should be traveling sufficiently far behind another such that they have enough time to stop before they hit the one in front, this spacing out of vehicles will result in longer travel times as you are effectively reducing road capacity by having each vehicle take up more space on the road. Instead, it's (politically) easier to have each person take individual risks of getting into a collision. However, with autonomous vehicles, it should be politically easier to force this constraint because the liability will be shifted from individuals to presumably the manufacturer so the manufacturer isn't going to stick their neck out so the individuals can save time on their commute.
- andyjpb 8y ago
  Slowing down traffic can, in fact, increase the throughput of the road, especially when it is busy. This is for two reasons: 1) slower traffic requires a smaller safety gap between each vehicle. 2) the dominating factor in traffic jams is often people responding to the brake-lights of the people in front of them. People over compensate and therefore a "braking bubble" (Soltion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soliton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soliton ) forms in the traffic which causes it to get even more spaced out. Keeping traffic flowing is more important to throughput than keeping it flowing it fast. Constant braking and speeding up on a busy road means that the flow rate is constantly disrupted and this causes the traffic to tend towards clumping and congestion. You're not "in traffic"; you "are traffic".
  - lotsofpulp 8y ago
    It's inevitable that people will over or under compensate, and differences in acceleration speeds of different vehicles means the rubber banding is inevitable, especially if you add any elevation climbs to the equation. Add in lane changes, merges, exits, and there's no situation where I would expect a slow and steady flow of traffic. Maximum throughput at a fast speed with minimal spacing between vehicles is more than maximum throughput at a slower speed with minimum spacing between vehicles. I see this in every urban area, people sacrifice safety for speed.
ataturk 8y ago
Never mind all that, we never even attempted the simplest solution which is to improve driver training! We give licenses to mouth breathing fools with very little accountability and then wonder why everything goes wrong. Also, why do I have to carry uninsured motorist coverage when every driver is required by law to have insurance? Something is very wrong there. Almost every crash a friend or colleague has related to me lately has involved another party who has NO INSURANCE. And yet, no citation issued by the police to the guilty party if they are here illegally. Furthermore, many of these crashes are hit and run--the guilty party is hiding from the authorities so they take the risk of escaping as well. It's like there's a new class of non citizen with super powered rights and the police just don't give a shit. I don't freaking get it other this is a near total breakdown of law and order in the US now. So why am I so worried about abiding by any laws? Lately, I just drive how I want, fuck it. What does bother me, though, is how many drivers come from countries where stoplights are considered optional.

by jnty 8y ago

lotsofpulp 8y ago

It might be technically feasible, but not politically feasible. While it is a no brainer to say every vehicle should be traveling sufficiently far behind another such that they have enough time to stop before they hit the one in front, this spacing out of vehicles will result in longer travel times as you are effectively reducing road capacity by having each vehicle take up more space on the road. Instead, it's (politically) easier to have each person take individual risks of getting into a collision. However, with autonomous vehicles, it should be politically easier to force this constraint because the liability will be shifted from individuals to presumably the manufacturer so the manufacturer isn't going to stick their neck out so the individuals can save time on their commute.

andyjpb 8y ago
Slowing down traffic can, in fact, increase the throughput of the road, especially when it is busy. This is for two reasons: 1) slower traffic requires a smaller safety gap between each vehicle. 2) the dominating factor in traffic jams is often people responding to the brake-lights of the people in front of them. People over compensate and therefore a "braking bubble" (Soltion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soliton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soliton ) forms in the traffic which causes it to get even more spaced out. Keeping traffic flowing is more important to throughput than keeping it flowing it fast. Constant braking and speeding up on a busy road means that the flow rate is constantly disrupted and this causes the traffic to tend towards clumping and congestion. You're not "in traffic"; you "are traffic".
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  It's inevitable that people will over or under compensate, and differences in acceleration speeds of different vehicles means the rubber banding is inevitable, especially if you add any elevation climbs to the equation. Add in lane changes, merges, exits, and there's no situation where I would expect a slow and steady flow of traffic. Maximum throughput at a fast speed with minimal spacing between vehicles is more than maximum throughput at a slower speed with minimum spacing between vehicles. I see this in every urban area, people sacrifice safety for speed.

ataturk 8y ago

Never mind all that, we never even attempted the simplest solution which is to improve driver training! We give licenses to mouth breathing fools with very little accountability and then wonder why everything goes wrong. Also, why do I have to carry uninsured motorist coverage when every driver is required by law to have insurance? Something is very wrong there. Almost every crash a friend or colleague has related to me lately has involved another party who has NO INSURANCE. And yet, no citation issued by the police to the guilty party if they are here illegally. Furthermore, many of these crashes are hit and run--the guilty party is hiding from the authorities so they take the risk of escaping as well. It's like there's a new class of non citizen with super powered rights and the police just don't give a shit. I don't freaking get it other this is a near total breakdown of law and order in the US now. So why am I so worried about abiding by any laws? Lately, I just drive how I want, fuck it. What does bother me, though, is how many drivers come from countries where stoplights are considered optional.