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There aren't any diverse, developed nations of 330 million to compare to so I used the nearest proxy. Ah yes, the great privilege of no healthcare, stagnant wa

There aren't any diverse, developed nations of 330 million to compare to so I used the nearest proxy. Ah yes, the great privilege of no healthcare, stagnant wages, the worlds highest incarceration rate, and largely nonexistent public transportation... and I'm to pay for this privilege with mandatory military service and perhaps cast carelessly to my death with no say in the matter. Strong sales pitch. If I don't like it, it'll cost me over two months of minimum wage to file the paper to renounce my citizenship. That's tyranny. If it were such a privilege, conscription would not be necessary, since people would join up for their great nation that they love and that loves them back. That's not where we are, though, is it? Lastly, I mentioned the church because it's yet another thing some people think ought to be mandatory for the good of society. Everybody has an opinion about what everybody else ought to be doing.

manigandham 8y ago
They don't work as proxies when they're so different. Healthcare is available. Incarceration rate won't affect you if you're not a criminal. Wages are the only serious issue and more related to global trade and changing industries than any country-specific policy. There are far worse conditions in other countries but my experience has shown people who list these complaints usually do not have any understanding of the plight of billions of poor around the world. Nobody likes to pay taxes either and won't willing do so if we didn't have laws and enforcement, but it's obvious that it's needed and positive. Yes, everybody has opinions. That's irrelevant to this discussion. If you really don't like staying in this country though, please do leave. Why would you stay? There are plenty of ways to raise the funds to move and renounce your citizenship, ironically many of which are way harder in other countries.
- PostOnce 8y ago
  Healthcare is available, yes, and so are gold-plated Lamborghinis -- these both apply to a certain class (not the same class, mind you, but there is an economic floor here). Minimum wage is about $1300/mo, good luck paying rent and health insurance with that and not starving. Good luck paying rent and food and power on double that income and still being able to afford even remotely decent health insurance. As for incarceration... When everything is a crime, everyone is a criminal. Famous lawyers are writing books about that. https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229 https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp... If you don't think just about everything is a crime, then you're uninformed. You probably committed a felony when you violated a website TOS today. I have no problem with taxation as a concept. Everyone says "if you don't like it leave", but that's a bluff -- until 2010, it was free to renounce your citizenship, and in 2010 it became $450. Four years later, it became $2350. If more people leave, it'll go up again. We say it, but we're afraid of people actually doing it. I won't renounce my citizenship, but I do think it's silly for us to pretend we want people to do it when we provably don't.
  - manigandham 8y ago
    You are stretching everything to such absurd levels that you effectively have no argument. Not everything is a crime and enforcement makes all the difference. Nobody is afraid of people leaving the country famous for individual liberty, it's just administrative cost. You're attributing another reason without any evidence. And really, why blame the fees as if that's what's really keeping you here. Get your visa, move your stuff, and then worry about the renouncing when it matters. Perhaps we can have free and automatic citizenship renunciation and revocation for failure to register for service, would you take that deal?

manigandham 8y ago

They don't work as proxies when they're so different. Healthcare is available. Incarceration rate won't affect you if you're not a criminal. Wages are the only serious issue and more related to global trade and changing industries than any country-specific policy. There are far worse conditions in other countries but my experience has shown people who list these complaints usually do not have any understanding of the plight of billions of poor around the world. Nobody likes to pay taxes either and won't willing do so if we didn't have laws and enforcement, but it's obvious that it's needed and positive. Yes, everybody has opinions. That's irrelevant to this discussion. If you really don't like staying in this country though, please do leave. Why would you stay? There are plenty of ways to raise the funds to move and renounce your citizenship, ironically many of which are way harder in other countries.

PostOnce 8y ago
Healthcare is available, yes, and so are gold-plated Lamborghinis -- these both apply to a certain class (not the same class, mind you, but there is an economic floor here). Minimum wage is about $1300/mo, good luck paying rent and health insurance with that and not starving. Good luck paying rent and food and power on double that income and still being able to afford even remotely decent health insurance. As for incarceration... When everything is a crime, everyone is a criminal. Famous lawyers are writing books about that. https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229 https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp... If you don't think just about everything is a crime, then you're uninformed. You probably committed a felony when you violated a website TOS today. I have no problem with taxation as a concept. Everyone says "if you don't like it leave", but that's a bluff -- until 2010, it was free to renounce your citizenship, and in 2010 it became $450. Four years later, it became $2350. If more people leave, it'll go up again. We say it, but we're afraid of people actually doing it. I won't renounce my citizenship, but I do think it's silly for us to pretend we want people to do it when we provably don't.
- manigandham 8y ago
  You are stretching everything to such absurd levels that you effectively have no argument. Not everything is a crime and enforcement makes all the difference. Nobody is afraid of people leaving the country famous for individual liberty, it's just administrative cost. You're attributing another reason without any evidence. And really, why blame the fees as if that's what's really keeping you here. Get your visa, move your stuff, and then worry about the renouncing when it matters. Perhaps we can have free and automatic citizenship renunciation and revocation for failure to register for service, would you take that deal?