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Lots of comments here focus on the fact that this device is WiFi-only and not a "real" cell phone. I find this sad. Are LTE calls really the only use case you c

by shezi 8y ago

Lots of comments here focus on the fact that this device is WiFi-only and not a "real" cell phone. I find this sad. Are LTE calls really the only use case you can think of for a device that has its source code open, has WiFi and Bluetooth, carries an LCD, a microphone, and a keypad? How boring! I am really excited about the wiphone, here are some of the ideas I have for it: * 2FA token generator * IoT remote * retro game console * modern game platform (think pokedex etc) * educational hacking And those are just off the top of my head. Essentially, it's a wonderful package for an ESP32 that makes creating useful devices out of that wonderful little processor even simpler.

catherd 8y ago
Thank you. Talking to people about this project often feels like 80% explaining why they don't actually need LTE for this use case, and 15% listening to whining that we haven't released the source code yet :)
- iBelieve 8y ago
  I can understand the 15% complaining that you haven't released the source yet - your website very clearly calls this an "open source mobile phone". Something can't be open source if the code hasn't been released yet under an open source license. It might be open source in the future, but it isn't yet, in direct contrast to multiple claims on your website.
  - catherd 8y ago
    You're 100% technically correct, but "WiPhone: A Phone That Will Almost Certainly Release The Code Later As Open Source" doesn't flow quite so well. It's also not a phone you can buy today, should we put a disclaimer about it not being a real device either?
    - jonnydubowsky 8y ago
      I think this project looks awesome. I get why you aren't releasing the source code until launch, as I've heard of many interesting Kickstarter projects finding a knockoff on sale before they even ship! So long as you ship it with the source code, you are in good shape. Good luck with the launch!
  - em-bee 8y ago
    that's not 100% technically correct. as long as the source is released together with the device the the proper procedure is being followed. if the source is specific to the device, it wouldn't be very useful without the device anyways. (sure parts of the code might be useful, but that's besides the point)
liamcardenas 8y ago
Hmmm, I don't know. If it's not filling the function of a phone, don't market it as one. > * 2FA token generator These already exist and are much more secure. > * IoT remote No thanks > * retro game console No thanks > * modern game platform (think pokedex etc) No thanks > * educational hacking Ok, I do agree it is interesting from this perspective. I get your overall point, but I still think it's a valid criticism.
- tlrobinson 8y ago
  You're missing the point, which I agree with shezi is "it's a wonderful package for an ESP32". If you don't want a standalone WiFi phone and can't think of any other useful projects to use it for, then don't buy it, but I most likely will (depending on the cost) because I love this kind of stuff.
  - liamcardenas 8y ago
    You are right. I was being needlessly snarky in response to his proposed use cases. My main point, though, was that it is reasonable to expect something marketed as a phone to have LTE/cellular capabilities. I don’t think “Show HN: an ESP32 with LCD display — think of all the possibilities!” would hit the front page.
    - DKnoll 8y ago
      Lots of desktop and mobile SIP clients are sold as phones despite having only ethernet or WiFi. You probably have one on your desk at work. If it can make phone calls, it's a phone. I think you mean 'cellphone.'
    - catherd 8y ago
      You're right as well :) But I think it's the stuff we did to take it from ESP32+LCD (which there are thousands of) and make it more like a phone are what makes it useful. Not having to build your own power supply and battery charger every time you start a new project is pretty useful. Or a nice enclosure with buttons that work right, feel nice, and are splash proof, etc., etc. It is technically a phone. Just not one many people would want to replace their smartphones with. Home phone or backup phone maybe. We aren't marketing it as a smartphone replacement. The mobile form factor is useful and not just an evil marketing trick.
0x8BADF00D 8y ago
None of those have anything to do with a supposed "open source" phone. An open source phone should be able to be a handheld computing device, with cellular and WiFi radios, running a libre OS. That being said, I do like the fact that it is moddable and the schematics are open. Calling it a phone is a stretch though, it's more like a hobbyist kit.
- shezi 8y ago
  As others have pointed out, the lines between cell phone, smart phone and phone are getting blurrier today.
mruts 8y ago
There are a lot of devices that fulfill those criteria... And being honest, I wouldn’t want to use it for any of the reasons you listed. I think this project would be a lot cooler if, you know, it actually worked as a phone.
- shezi 8y ago
  I've been searching for something like this for a while and have not found anything suitable. Honest question: do you have pointers for any of the other devices you mention?
  - mruts 8y ago
    https://www.dragonbox.de/en/45-pyra https://www.dragonbox.de/en/45-pyra is pretty cool also gp2x https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GP2X https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GP2X (discontinued but you can find them on ebay). Comes in 3 models, GP2x, GP2X Caanoo, and GP2X Wiz. I had one as a kid and loved it. Got into Linux and programming because of it. Or a rooted old android phone is pretty similar, more functional than the WiPhone, and probably cheaper as well.
clairity 8y ago
if you want to pay a carrier for always-on connectivity, get a wifi hotspot (i carried one for nearly 2 years). added bonus is that you can connect other devices to it on the go. as low as $30/month in the states (this is a steal comparatively): https://bestmvno.com/data-only/att-unlimited/ https://bestmvno.com/data-only/att-unlimited/

by shezi 8y ago

catherd 8y ago

Thank you. Talking to people about this project often feels like 80% explaining why they don't actually need LTE for this use case, and 15% listening to whining that we haven't released the source code yet :)

iBelieve 8y ago
I can understand the 15% complaining that you haven't released the source yet - your website very clearly calls this an "open source mobile phone". Something can't be open source if the code hasn't been released yet under an open source license. It might be open source in the future, but it isn't yet, in direct contrast to multiple claims on your website.
- catherd 8y ago
  You're 100% technically correct, but "WiPhone: A Phone That Will Almost Certainly Release The Code Later As Open Source" doesn't flow quite so well. It's also not a phone you can buy today, should we put a disclaimer about it not being a real device either?
  - jonnydubowsky 8y ago
    I think this project looks awesome. I get why you aren't releasing the source code until launch, as I've heard of many interesting Kickstarter projects finding a knockoff on sale before they even ship! So long as you ship it with the source code, you are in good shape. Good luck with the launch!
- em-bee 8y ago
  that's not 100% technically correct. as long as the source is released together with the device the the proper procedure is being followed. if the source is specific to the device, it wouldn't be very useful without the device anyways. (sure parts of the code might be useful, but that's besides the point)

liamcardenas 8y ago

Hmmm, I don't know. If it's not filling the function of a phone, don't market it as one. > * 2FA token generator These already exist and are much more secure. > * IoT remote No thanks > * retro game console No thanks > * modern game platform (think pokedex etc) No thanks > * educational hacking Ok, I do agree it is interesting from this perspective. I get your overall point, but I still think it's a valid criticism.

tlrobinson 8y ago
You're missing the point, which I agree with shezi is "it's a wonderful package for an ESP32". If you don't want a standalone WiFi phone and can't think of any other useful projects to use it for, then don't buy it, but I most likely will (depending on the cost) because I love this kind of stuff.
- liamcardenas 8y ago
  You are right. I was being needlessly snarky in response to his proposed use cases. My main point, though, was that it is reasonable to expect something marketed as a phone to have LTE/cellular capabilities. I don’t think “Show HN: an ESP32 with LCD display — think of all the possibilities!” would hit the front page.
  - DKnoll 8y ago
    Lots of desktop and mobile SIP clients are sold as phones despite having only ethernet or WiFi. You probably have one on your desk at work. If it can make phone calls, it's a phone. I think you mean 'cellphone.'
  - catherd 8y ago
    You're right as well :) But I think it's the stuff we did to take it from ESP32+LCD (which there are thousands of) and make it more like a phone are what makes it useful. Not having to build your own power supply and battery charger every time you start a new project is pretty useful. Or a nice enclosure with buttons that work right, feel nice, and are splash proof, etc., etc. It is technically a phone. Just not one many people would want to replace their smartphones with. Home phone or backup phone maybe. We aren't marketing it as a smartphone replacement. The mobile form factor is useful and not just an evil marketing trick.

0x8BADF00D 8y ago

None of those have anything to do with a supposed "open source" phone. An open source phone should be able to be a handheld computing device, with cellular and WiFi radios, running a libre OS. That being said, I do like the fact that it is moddable and the schematics are open. Calling it a phone is a stretch though, it's more like a hobbyist kit.

shezi 8y ago
As others have pointed out, the lines between cell phone, smart phone and phone are getting blurrier today.

mruts 8y ago

There are a lot of devices that fulfill those criteria... And being honest, I wouldn’t want to use it for any of the reasons you listed. I think this project would be a lot cooler if, you know, it actually worked as a phone.

shezi 8y ago
I've been searching for something like this for a while and have not found anything suitable. Honest question: do you have pointers for any of the other devices you mention?
- mruts 8y ago
  https://www.dragonbox.de/en/45-pyra https://www.dragonbox.de/en/45-pyra is pretty cool also gp2x https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GP2X https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GP2X (discontinued but you can find them on ebay). Comes in 3 models, GP2x, GP2X Caanoo, and GP2X Wiz. I had one as a kid and loved it. Got into Linux and programming because of it. Or a rooted old android phone is pretty similar, more functional than the WiPhone, and probably cheaper as well.

clairity 8y ago

if you want to pay a carrier for always-on connectivity, get a wifi hotspot (i carried one for nearly 2 years). added bonus is that you can connect other devices to it on the go. as low as $30/month in the states (this is a steal comparatively): https://bestmvno.com/data-only/att-unlimited/ https://bestmvno.com/data-only/att-unlimited/