5 ms·

We are in this to make money, it's not a side project. Marketing is almost impossible without tracking and I'm not going to say I like it, but I haven't found a

We are in this to make money, it's not a side project. Marketing is almost impossible without tracking and I'm not going to say I like it, but I haven't found a way to do without it. I like open source/not tracking/privacy, but it's not my religion. This project would be dead already if we couldn't run Facebook ads. The phone is for people who want hardware that can be used for hacking. We don't have any code that does anything related to tracking in the phone, and once it's released anyone can verify that. That page is static, so I don't see how https is relevant. Right now there is no security whatsoever. We are still getting the system to work, and work reliably. If enough people buy one we will probably add some sort of transport layer encryption.

kaycebasques 8y ago
> That page is static, so I don't see how https is relevant. https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/security/encrypt-in-transit/why-https https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/security/encr... Disclosure: I wrote that doc in collaboration with the Chrome security team.
markovbot 8y ago
So the marketing emphasizes the privacy aspects of this device, yet in the comments (not noted on the website), you state that it has "no security whatsoever". This seems like an important disclaimer that should be given on the website.
- catherd 8y ago
  It's not a privacy focused device. It's a device intended to give hackers the ability to do things they aren't able to do with typical commercial hardware. As a side effect of that there are some properties related to security that you get for free (no tracking cookies, no black box cellular radio), and others, like encryption, that we will try to add if we make enough to fund doing it. But we won't feature creep the project and risk never delivering just to check a box that's not part of our core goal.
- dang 8y ago
  "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - joecool1029 8y ago
    dang, the author includes an entire privacy section on his site about this device. He then contradicts it downthread. Try clicking 'Privacy' in the footer... oh right, you can't. The website doesn't use HTTPS, includes trackers, and it might be the case that the author hasn't figured it out that without mitigations, wifi can be tracked just like cellular radio. In short, it's the scammiest looking project I've seen posted to HN in a long time. At least they aren't taking money yet so the author can continue to shoot himself in the foot in comments.
    - dang 8y ago
      Fair enough, but the GP comment still breaks the guideline I quoted. No? Plus it breaks the one asking people not to snark.
      - markovbot 8y ago
        I can edit the comment to be less snarky if that helps...
        dang 8y ago
        Sure! I've reopened it for editing.
emilfihlman 8y ago
The arrogance of this is astonishing.
- dang 8y ago
  Would you please stop posting uncivil comments to Hacker News? Regardless of whether you have a point, it damages the already-fragile container here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
clairity 8y ago
you can do online marketing without tracking by giant ad companies like facebook and google. for example, facebook ads don't require their tracking scripts on your site. retargeting requires tracking, but i'm not sure that's worth the hit to your nascent brand, given the target market.

kaycebasques 8y ago

> That page is static, so I don't see how https is relevant. https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/security/encrypt-in-transit/why-https https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/security/encr... Disclosure: I wrote that doc in collaboration with the Chrome security team.

markovbot 8y ago

So the marketing emphasizes the privacy aspects of this device, yet in the comments (not noted on the website), you state that it has "no security whatsoever". This seems like an important disclaimer that should be given on the website.

catherd 8y ago
It's not a privacy focused device. It's a device intended to give hackers the ability to do things they aren't able to do with typical commercial hardware. As a side effect of that there are some properties related to security that you get for free (no tracking cookies, no black box cellular radio), and others, like encryption, that we will try to add if we make enough to fund doing it. But we won't feature creep the project and risk never delivering just to check a box that's not part of our core goal.
dang 8y ago
"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- joecool1029 8y ago
  dang, the author includes an entire privacy section on his site about this device. He then contradicts it downthread. Try clicking 'Privacy' in the footer... oh right, you can't. The website doesn't use HTTPS, includes trackers, and it might be the case that the author hasn't figured it out that without mitigations, wifi can be tracked just like cellular radio. In short, it's the scammiest looking project I've seen posted to HN in a long time. At least they aren't taking money yet so the author can continue to shoot himself in the foot in comments.
  - dang 8y ago
    Fair enough, but the GP comment still breaks the guideline I quoted. No? Plus it breaks the one asking people not to snark.
    - markovbot 8y ago
      I can edit the comment to be less snarky if that helps...
      - dang 8y ago
        Sure! I've reopened it for editing.

emilfihlman 8y ago

The arrogance of this is astonishing.

dang 8y ago
Would you please stop posting uncivil comments to Hacker News? Regardless of whether you have a point, it damages the already-fragile container here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

clairity 8y ago

you can do online marketing without tracking by giant ad companies like facebook and google. for example, facebook ads don't require their tracking scripts on your site. retargeting requires tracking, but i'm not sure that's worth the hit to your nascent brand, given the target market.