3 ms·

A calculator processes maybe 64bits, in a machinery that is rather limited, certainly not enough to emulate it's environment, unless a more complex machine oper

A calculator processes maybe 64bits, in a machinery that is rather limited, certainly not enough to emulate it's environment, unless a more complex machine operates it.

goatlover 8y ago
However, bits, information and software have the same problem as math that was mentioned in the article. And that is that they are abstract and relational, unlike the concrete qualities of experiencing color, pain, a dream, etc. So I doubt that any amount of bits will do any good, just like no math equation is going to become conscious. What would it even mean for an equation or bits of information to have conscious experiences?
- posterboy 8y ago
  That's nonsense. A large part of maths is having the right feel for it, numbers are--paradoxically--qualitative. An equation is the application of a join operator, a formula is an operation, thought is operating and you are just thinking of lines scribled on paper instead.
  - goatlover 8y ago
    You're confusing the feel of doing math in your head with it being applied to describe something, which is abstract. A mathematical model isn't the thing itself.
- natosaichek 8y ago
  However, voltages, ion channels and chemical messengers have the same problem as math. They are abstract and relational, unlike the concrete qualities of experiencing color, pain, a dream, etc. So I doubt that any amount of neurons will do any good, just like no math equation is going to become conscious. I think you're confusing the components of a map with a characteristic of the territory. We use 'bits' and 'equations' to describe the world. They do not themselves have conscious experiences, any more than a neuron. They are convenient components in a model of a larger system, which has consciousness or self-awareness as an emergent characteristic of the interactions of its components. This is like saying that because an individual spring or gear cannot tell time that a mechanical watch is an impossibility... The characteristic of interest 'maintenance of time keeping' emerges from the complex interactions of a variety of subcomponents, each of which alone has no reference to time.

A calculator processes maybe 64bits, in a machinery that is rather limited, certainly not enough to emulate it's environment, unless a more complex machine operates it.

goatlover 8y ago

However, bits, information and software have the same problem as math that was mentioned in the article. And that is that they are abstract and relational, unlike the concrete qualities of experiencing color, pain, a dream, etc. So I doubt that any amount of bits will do any good, just like no math equation is going to become conscious. What would it even mean for an equation or bits of information to have conscious experiences?

posterboy 8y ago
That's nonsense. A large part of maths is having the right feel for it, numbers are--paradoxically--qualitative. An equation is the application of a join operator, a formula is an operation, thought is operating and you are just thinking of lines scribled on paper instead.
- goatlover 8y ago
  You're confusing the feel of doing math in your head with it being applied to describe something, which is abstract. A mathematical model isn't the thing itself.
natosaichek 8y ago
However, voltages, ion channels and chemical messengers have the same problem as math. They are abstract and relational, unlike the concrete qualities of experiencing color, pain, a dream, etc. So I doubt that any amount of neurons will do any good, just like no math equation is going to become conscious. I think you're confusing the components of a map with a characteristic of the territory. We use 'bits' and 'equations' to describe the world. They do not themselves have conscious experiences, any more than a neuron. They are convenient components in a model of a larger system, which has consciousness or self-awareness as an emergent characteristic of the interactions of its components. This is like saying that because an individual spring or gear cannot tell time that a mechanical watch is an impossibility... The characteristic of interest 'maintenance of time keeping' emerges from the complex interactions of a variety of subcomponents, each of which alone has no reference to time.