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A world where 95% don't need to work is a world where 95% of the people don't have any economic power and will be left to starve.

by pygy_ 8y ago

Jill_the_Pill 8y ago
That sounds like a collective choice, not a logical consequence. Would you ever want to be one of 5% working surrounded by starving people? Or would you work toward some sort of redistribution -- either of resources or hours? edit: on reflection, probably 95% starving people would accomplish that redistribution pretty efficiently with or without you!
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  "Would you ever want to be one of 5% working surrounded by starving people?" Just go to a third world country or even places like New York or San Francisco. You'll see super wealthy, shiny places right next to homeless people or slums and the wealthy people seem OK with this or don't feel enough discomfort to do anything. Or they just do enough to get these people out of sight.
- watwut 8y ago
  Looking at history, redistribution does not hapen out of good heart. So yes, 5% will be surrounded by starving people and blame those people. Also, the 5% is likely to be selection biased for power hungry and ruthless (cause there will be struggle for those 5% positions).
- burrows 8y ago
  My Musk-Samsung RoboServant (TM) discourages the ruffians quite effectively.
- coding123 8y ago
  Clearly, the 5% would be slaughtered pretty quickly. This is one of the reasons (IMHO) that jobs suddenly open up after things like Occupy, even if there's no tangible or realistic reason why jobs are suddenly needed.
JulianMorrison 8y ago
No, that's only if it's capitalist. It doesn't have to be capitalist.
Ma8ee 8y ago
Only if the 95% is left without any political influence. (That political influence is the same thing as money in the US does not mean that that is necessarily so.)
PavlovsCat 8y ago
It should console you that you're only getting downvoted because you don't have more prominence. If you did, you'd at least get ignored. > The frightening coincidence of the modern population explosion with the discovery of technical devices that, through automation, will make large sections of the population 'superfluous' even in terms of labor, and that, through nuclear energy, make it possible to deal with this twofold threat by the use of instruments beside which Hitler's gassing installations look like an evil child's fumbling toys, should be enough to make us tremble. -- Hannah Arendt > If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed. Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine-produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine-owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution. So far, the trend seems to be toward the second option, with technology driving ever-increasing inequality. -- Stephen Hawking, https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/3nyn5i/science_ama_series_stephen_hawking_ama_answers/cvsdmkv https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/3nyn5i/science_ama...
- pygy_ 8y ago
  Thanks, I know. I'm not too worried about HN karma. Also, I don't such a thing to happen. The minute a subset of the economy can work in an automated closed loop (because automation is cheaper than the cheapest human labor), it won't have any economic incentive to do commerce with us, and will instead compete for resources. Why would it compete? Survival bias. It will have grown in a capitalist framework where weaker, non-competitive players die or are absorbed, and will embody those principles. La pluie, ça nous mouille et la rouille, ça nous nuit Règlons, nom d'un ours, le problème à la source L'ennui c'est l'oxygène qui fait rouiller nos roues dentées, c'est l'oxygène qui fait rouiller nos clous Les tas de viande ils fontt peine à voir ils glandouillent du matin au soir et ils n'ont plus aucun pouvoir y'a plus à s'en soucier Les tas de viande ils sont moins malins que le robinet de la salle de bain du coup ils nous servent plus à rien on peut les oublier... L'ennui c'est l'oxygène qui fait rouiller nos roues dentées, c'est l'oxygène qui fait rouiller nos clous

A world where 95% don't need to work is a world where 95% of the people don't have any economic power and will be left to starve.

by pygy_ 8y ago

A world where 95% don't need to work is a world where 95% of the people don't have any economic power and will be left to starve.

Jill_the_Pill 8y ago

That sounds like a collective choice, not a logical consequence. Would you ever want to be one of 5% working surrounded by starving people? Or would you work toward some sort of redistribution -- either of resources or hours? edit: on reflection, probably 95% starving people would accomplish that redistribution pretty efficiently with or without you!

maxxxxx 8y ago
"Would you ever want to be one of 5% working surrounded by starving people?" Just go to a third world country or even places like New York or San Francisco. You'll see super wealthy, shiny places right next to homeless people or slums and the wealthy people seem OK with this or don't feel enough discomfort to do anything. Or they just do enough to get these people out of sight.
watwut 8y ago
Looking at history, redistribution does not hapen out of good heart. So yes, 5% will be surrounded by starving people and blame those people. Also, the 5% is likely to be selection biased for power hungry and ruthless (cause there will be struggle for those 5% positions).
burrows 8y ago
My Musk-Samsung RoboServant (TM) discourages the ruffians quite effectively.
coding123 8y ago
Clearly, the 5% would be slaughtered pretty quickly. This is one of the reasons (IMHO) that jobs suddenly open up after things like Occupy, even if there's no tangible or realistic reason why jobs are suddenly needed.

JulianMorrison 8y ago

No, that's only if it's capitalist. It doesn't have to be capitalist.

Ma8ee 8y ago

Only if the 95% is left without any political influence. (That political influence is the same thing as money in the US does not mean that that is necessarily so.)

PavlovsCat 8y ago

It should console you that you're only getting downvoted because you don't have more prominence. If you did, you'd at least get ignored. > The frightening coincidence of the modern population explosion with the discovery of technical devices that, through automation, will make large sections of the population 'superfluous' even in terms of labor, and that, through nuclear energy, make it possible to deal with this twofold threat by the use of instruments beside which Hitler's gassing installations look like an evil child's fumbling toys, should be enough to make us tremble. -- Hannah Arendt > If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed. Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine-produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine-owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution. So far, the trend seems to be toward the second option, with technology driving ever-increasing inequality. -- Stephen Hawking, https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/3nyn5i/science_ama_series_stephen_hawking_ama_answers/cvsdmkv https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/3nyn5i/science_ama...

pygy_ 8y ago
Thanks, I know. I'm not too worried about HN karma. Also, I don't such a thing to happen. The minute a subset of the economy can work in an automated closed loop (because automation is cheaper than the cheapest human labor), it won't have any economic incentive to do commerce with us, and will instead compete for resources. Why would it compete? Survival bias. It will have grown in a capitalist framework where weaker, non-competitive players die or are absorbed, and will embody those principles. La pluie, ça nous mouille et la rouille, ça nous nuit Règlons, nom d'un ours, le problème à la source L'ennui c'est l'oxygène qui fait rouiller nos roues dentées, c'est l'oxygène qui fait rouiller nos clous Les tas de viande ils fontt peine à voir ils glandouillent du matin au soir et ils n'ont plus aucun pouvoir y'a plus à s'en soucier Les tas de viande ils sont moins malins que le robinet de la salle de bain du coup ils nous servent plus à rien on peut les oublier... L'ennui c'est l'oxygène qui fait rouiller nos roues dentées, c'est l'oxygène qui fait rouiller nos clous