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The short version: The real reason, perhaps unpopular to state it, is that we will be happier, now and in the next life, with a clear conscience. The longer v

by lcall 8y ago

The short version: The real reason, perhaps unpopular to state it, is that we will be happier, now and in the next life, with a clear conscience. The longer version: there is a God, this life is not our beginning nor our end, we will be rewarded or punished according to our choices, someday everything about us will be known, but God can help us change now, to have peace, and happiness that lasts, families that are happy, tools to address the problems of life, and a reason for confidence to go on when things are really hard, etc, etc. That sounds like a sermon but I have thought about it for a very long time and considered my reasons for belief, which I have tried to explain: http://lukecall.net http://lukecall.net (a lightweight site, just text; it attempts to be a skimmable outline of info where you click what you find interesting, for more info.) EDIT: And no matter one's worldview: after many years of observing, reading and learning from experiences, it seems so very clear that we all get farther if we work together and can help & trust each other.

paulryanrogers 8y ago
> there is a God, this life is not our beginning nor our end, Downvoted because this is an extraordinary claim without falsifiable evidence. And my experience following that path was not a harmonious one. Perhaps it is better for us to cooperate more, but I'm not convinced that wildly varied interpretations of imaginary authorities are the best way.
- lcall 8y ago
  In the link I documented at length why the evidence is sufficient for me, after long consideration, experience, and testing. And it gives me great comfort and direction etc. (And I mention somewhere down in there how it relates to science, which I greatly respect.)
- vokep 8y ago
  Its an extraordinary claim, but its religion, it kinda starts with extraordinary unfalsifiable claims from the start. Truth is, it doesn't matter. Ideas of an after-life and such may or may not be true, but the instructions for how to live here on Earth are the same regardless of the belief: Try your best to be a good person and when the time comes, leave this world having made it better, not worse. Any religious story comes down to teaching that lesson ultimately, perhaps ideas of reincarnation or after-life are to provide a story to believe as extra motivation when people come to believe things like "Why be honest if honesty doesn't pay". If you've come to believe that, if you also believe dishonesty will result in very real very bad things for you eventually, you may act honestly anyways. Just because religion isn't falsifiable in a strict scientific sense doesn't mean there is no value to discussing it. There is still a logic to it that can be understood and interesting consequential conclusions drawn from.
  - lcall 8y ago
    Thanks for your comment, which I respect and appreciate. At the same time, and in addition, I believe that there are reasons for which it matters, because by knowing the truth there are much greater benefits available. Through the teachings I try to follow, one can have greater peace and joy in this life, a perspective and accompanying tools to better solve the inevitable problems of this life, and also that through those teachings and the accompanying ordinances, one can have blessings after this life which can come in no other way, such as family ties that persist beyond the grave, and Eternal life with God. There are different options for those who want only to be a good person: good, but not as good. There is more in the earlier link to my web site ( http://lukecall.net http://lukecall.net ). This is in no way a declaration of superiority. Some of the lessons I have learned were unfortunately learned the hard way, rather than the easy (obedient, humble) way sometimes, but I am, by all those good & bad experiences, fully convinced that the specific teachings are true. (I'll add another comment in this immediate thread about that part -- relative to falsifiability.)
- lcall 8y ago
  With regards to testing, I think I have very thoroughly tested, at least enough for my own knowledge. For example, when I do what I know I should be doing, based on my belief in God or based on the limited things I have felt are right, in spite of my weakness, things go better and I am always glad. No exceptions that I know of, and I have been tracking this. On the other hand, when I have gone against that, due to wanting to do things my own stubborn way instead, of course I may, and sometimes do so for a long time, but there are always regrets. Tracked much of that also, and the results are clear to me. I don't know if that counts as falsifiable for you (probably not, because the specific experience was mine, not yours), but I can say with confidence, having heard much of experiences of others also, that you can learn the same if you wish. But no one can give it to without your at least minimal initial desire and some effort, and willingness to follow what you learn for yourself to be true, step by step. That is how it works. You will know when you know, and then you will know more when you apply it patiently and see that it works. One person pointed out there are more ways to determine truth than science alone (essential and valuable as it is): Again, there is more info at my previously-linked web site. I'm not sure whether that can be a helpful answer for you, but has certainly been convincing to me, both the easy way and the hard way.

by lcall 8y ago

paulryanrogers 8y ago

> there is a God, this life is not our beginning nor our end, Downvoted because this is an extraordinary claim without falsifiable evidence. And my experience following that path was not a harmonious one. Perhaps it is better for us to cooperate more, but I'm not convinced that wildly varied interpretations of imaginary authorities are the best way.

lcall 8y ago
In the link I documented at length why the evidence is sufficient for me, after long consideration, experience, and testing. And it gives me great comfort and direction etc. (And I mention somewhere down in there how it relates to science, which I greatly respect.)
vokep 8y ago
Its an extraordinary claim, but its religion, it kinda starts with extraordinary unfalsifiable claims from the start. Truth is, it doesn't matter. Ideas of an after-life and such may or may not be true, but the instructions for how to live here on Earth are the same regardless of the belief: Try your best to be a good person and when the time comes, leave this world having made it better, not worse. Any religious story comes down to teaching that lesson ultimately, perhaps ideas of reincarnation or after-life are to provide a story to believe as extra motivation when people come to believe things like "Why be honest if honesty doesn't pay". If you've come to believe that, if you also believe dishonesty will result in very real very bad things for you eventually, you may act honestly anyways. Just because religion isn't falsifiable in a strict scientific sense doesn't mean there is no value to discussing it. There is still a logic to it that can be understood and interesting consequential conclusions drawn from.
- lcall 8y ago
  Thanks for your comment, which I respect and appreciate. At the same time, and in addition, I believe that there are reasons for which it matters, because by knowing the truth there are much greater benefits available. Through the teachings I try to follow, one can have greater peace and joy in this life, a perspective and accompanying tools to better solve the inevitable problems of this life, and also that through those teachings and the accompanying ordinances, one can have blessings after this life which can come in no other way, such as family ties that persist beyond the grave, and Eternal life with God. There are different options for those who want only to be a good person: good, but not as good. There is more in the earlier link to my web site ( http://lukecall.net http://lukecall.net ). This is in no way a declaration of superiority. Some of the lessons I have learned were unfortunately learned the hard way, rather than the easy (obedient, humble) way sometimes, but I am, by all those good & bad experiences, fully convinced that the specific teachings are true. (I'll add another comment in this immediate thread about that part -- relative to falsifiability.)
lcall 8y ago
With regards to testing, I think I have very thoroughly tested, at least enough for my own knowledge. For example, when I do what I know I should be doing, based on my belief in God or based on the limited things I have felt are right, in spite of my weakness, things go better and I am always glad. No exceptions that I know of, and I have been tracking this. On the other hand, when I have gone against that, due to wanting to do things my own stubborn way instead, of course I may, and sometimes do so for a long time, but there are always regrets. Tracked much of that also, and the results are clear to me. I don't know if that counts as falsifiable for you (probably not, because the specific experience was mine, not yours), but I can say with confidence, having heard much of experiences of others also, that you can learn the same if you wish. But no one can give it to without your at least minimal initial desire and some effort, and willingness to follow what you learn for yourself to be true, step by step. That is how it works. You will know when you know, and then you will know more when you apply it patiently and see that it works. One person pointed out there are more ways to determine truth than science alone (essential and valuable as it is): Again, there is more info at my previously-linked web site. I'm not sure whether that can be a helpful answer for you, but has certainly been convincing to me, both the easy way and the hard way.