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My principle concern with any boutique desktop systems is that in order for the business model to be viable, they need to add significant mark up to the BOM. Ho

My principle concern with any boutique desktop systems is that in order for the business model to be viable, they need to add significant mark up to the BOM. However I most enthusiasts can just assemble a desktop for themselves and save hundreds of dollars. One of the easiest ways to save hundreds of dollars I am aware of.

Finnucane 8y ago
Doesn’t every manufacturer of anything have to have a markup?
- inimino 8y ago
  Yes, but there are economies of scale that Dell or Apple enjoy which will never apply to a seller targeting a niche market. Not only do they get lower costs on parts, but they can afford lower margins per unit since they have much higher volume relative to the fixed costs of running the business.
  - Finnucane 8y ago
    So the niche market shouldn’t be served?
    - the_pwner224 8y ago
      What the thread parent (bgorman) saying is that boutique desktop systems (as with any niche product) have to add significant markup. But, for computers, the target market of these manufacturers can also often build a computer themselves and avoid the huge markup. If you sell ultra high quality waterproof headsets to audiophiles for $2500, including a $1000 markup, your customers have only the choices of A) not buying or B) paying the markup. With desktops, they get the 3rd choice of building it themselves for $1600/1700.
      - bwat49 8y ago
        What's missing in this analogy though is that computers need to run an Operating system. When building your own system (and running Windows), you can be pretty sure that windows will work without issues. With linux though, it's more of a gamble, which is why a vendor that tests/pre-configures/supports linux can be appealing
- ken 8y ago
  True, but here, you're paying for not just the hardware and the people who select and design and assemble it, but the development of a Linux distribution -- which nobody seems to want (see above), and which we're told "well, you can just ignore it and use Ubuntu instead". I lived through Progeny Linux. Never again. Ubuntu is the one Debian fork that I've seen survive, and it began with a huge financial outlay from an individual. It's just like the old joke: How do you make a million dollars? Start with a billion dollars...
smacktoward 8y ago
There is some value in having a vendor who can provide some assurances that this specific combination of hardware and software will actually work when it's all put together. Enthusiasts don't mind spending hours trying to figure out why their new system won't POST, but most people by far are not enthusiasts and see that as frustrating and tedious. Charging those people a markup to work all that stuff out for them in advance isn't unreasonable.
- nindalf 8y ago
  A site like pcpartpicker makes this easier. It tells you the cost of all your parts, where to buy those parts from and importantly, if they're compatible with each other socket- and space-wise.
  - smacktoward 8y ago
    Easier, yes, but not as easy. If your PCPartPicker-approved parts arrive and it turns out they actually don't work together, you can't call PCPartPicker and get support or replacements. Don't get me wrong, I build my own PCs, because I enjoy choosing just the right components and then putting them all together. I just don't kid myself into thinking that, just because this stuff is fun for me, it is therefore fun for most people. It isn't. Most people consider this stuff work, and they just want to take the thing out of the box and have it all work when they press the power button. A system vendor can provide that, and most people view that service as worth spending a little more for.
  - kilburn 8y ago
    Even then you may hit some hurdles. I bought a Ryzen3 APU system for my parents, delivered to their house because I was visiting shortly after. When I got there I assembled the thing and it wouldn't POST. It turned out that I needed to upgrade the motherboard's firmware for it to support APU CPUs. I ended up taking the system back to my place, disassembling and using my own non-APU Ryzen CPU to upgrade the new motherboard's firmware and assembling both systems again. Massive PITA even though everything was compatible. PS: Aside from that, I'm still surprised by how well that system works. I definitely recommend low-end ryzen APUs for "office" usecases!

Finnucane 8y ago

Doesn’t every manufacturer of anything have to have a markup?

inimino 8y ago
Yes, but there are economies of scale that Dell or Apple enjoy which will never apply to a seller targeting a niche market. Not only do they get lower costs on parts, but they can afford lower margins per unit since they have much higher volume relative to the fixed costs of running the business.
- Finnucane 8y ago
  So the niche market shouldn’t be served?
  - the_pwner224 8y ago
    What the thread parent (bgorman) saying is that boutique desktop systems (as with any niche product) have to add significant markup. But, for computers, the target market of these manufacturers can also often build a computer themselves and avoid the huge markup. If you sell ultra high quality waterproof headsets to audiophiles for $2500, including a $1000 markup, your customers have only the choices of A) not buying or B) paying the markup. With desktops, they get the 3rd choice of building it themselves for $1600/1700.
    - bwat49 8y ago
      What's missing in this analogy though is that computers need to run an Operating system. When building your own system (and running Windows), you can be pretty sure that windows will work without issues. With linux though, it's more of a gamble, which is why a vendor that tests/pre-configures/supports linux can be appealing
ken 8y ago
True, but here, you're paying for not just the hardware and the people who select and design and assemble it, but the development of a Linux distribution -- which nobody seems to want (see above), and which we're told "well, you can just ignore it and use Ubuntu instead". I lived through Progeny Linux. Never again. Ubuntu is the one Debian fork that I've seen survive, and it began with a huge financial outlay from an individual. It's just like the old joke: How do you make a million dollars? Start with a billion dollars...

smacktoward 8y ago

There is some value in having a vendor who can provide some assurances that this specific combination of hardware and software will actually work when it's all put together. Enthusiasts don't mind spending hours trying to figure out why their new system won't POST, but most people by far are not enthusiasts and see that as frustrating and tedious. Charging those people a markup to work all that stuff out for them in advance isn't unreasonable.

nindalf 8y ago
A site like pcpartpicker makes this easier. It tells you the cost of all your parts, where to buy those parts from and importantly, if they're compatible with each other socket- and space-wise.
- smacktoward 8y ago
  Easier, yes, but not as easy. If your PCPartPicker-approved parts arrive and it turns out they actually don't work together, you can't call PCPartPicker and get support or replacements. Don't get me wrong, I build my own PCs, because I enjoy choosing just the right components and then putting them all together. I just don't kid myself into thinking that, just because this stuff is fun for me, it is therefore fun for most people. It isn't. Most people consider this stuff work, and they just want to take the thing out of the box and have it all work when they press the power button. A system vendor can provide that, and most people view that service as worth spending a little more for.
- kilburn 8y ago
  Even then you may hit some hurdles. I bought a Ryzen3 APU system for my parents, delivered to their house because I was visiting shortly after. When I got there I assembled the thing and it wouldn't POST. It turned out that I needed to upgrade the motherboard's firmware for it to support APU CPUs. I ended up taking the system back to my place, disassembling and using my own non-APU Ryzen CPU to upgrade the new motherboard's firmware and assembling both systems again. Massive PITA even though everything was compatible. PS: Aside from that, I'm still surprised by how well that system works. I definitely recommend low-end ryzen APUs for "office" usecases!