4 ms·

> I wonder how many lives are lost each year (not just in aviation but globally) because the US refuses to convert to the metric system. Keep in mind that the

> I wonder how many lives are lost each year (not just in aviation but globally) because the US refuses to convert to the metric system. Keep in mind that the U.S. is not the only place where measures are mixed. If anything, British people end up using more measures than Americans. Here in Canada, we have a lot of things read out in both, because of the immense sticking power of customary measures. U.S. organizations are actively encouraged and (for the most part) fully allowed to adopt SI measures, but it's not like switching road sides, where everything makes sense after you hear "drive on the right now". Keep in mind that powered flight was basically entirely developed by Americans and pre-SI Brits, and already had more than fifty years of history by the time either pioneering country adopted SI in any significant way. It should not surprise you in the slightest that an American plane expected to hear fuel mass given as weight in pounds; in fact, it should astonish you that anyone is trying to measure it in kilograms in North America.

eterm 8y ago
I'm British, so you don't need to explain using mixed systems, however in any kind of academic, engineering or scientific contexts metric units are used almost exclusively. Yes, people still refer to height in feet and inches a lot, and we'll drink a pint (a real pint! None of your mini-pints!), but that does change over time. For example older people will use stone and pounds for their weight but being younger the doc doesn't bother telling me my weight in anything but kilograms so I don't even know my weight except in Kg. Even in Britain, in almost all engineering contexts, SI units would be assumed. Your point about Americans assuming imperial units is precisely wwhy it's so dangerous that metrification hasn't happened there. If the US went metric, then there would no longer be any need to assume anything but metric anywhere, and it would be safer for it. Yes, there's a long standing tradition, but it only takes a couple of generations to completely change, and that would likely be hastened by being the last large country to do so and having a large cultural footprint on the rest of the world. If the US did convert to metric, in 3 or 4 generations the whole world would be metric, and there wouldn't be any "wrong assumptions", and it is making bad assumptions that lead to preventable failures. If China can manage to go metric, the US can too.
- microcolonel 8y ago
  > however in any kind of academic, engineering or scientific contexts metric units are used almost exclusively This is true in the United States as well, but fueling a commercial airplane is not an academic, scientific, or even an engineering exercise. It is as routine and pedestrian as refueling a bus. > Your point about Americans assuming imperial units is precisely wwhy it's so dangerous that metrification hasn't happened there. Or maybe it's an argument for why "metrification" is itself dangerous. The problem is the transition, not being on either side of the fence. It seems to me that the only safe mode of transition is first to dual readout, and only then to SI-exclusive. Don't get me wrong, I like SI units, I use them every day, and I don't long to spend any time multiplying and dividing by irregular fractions; I just don't like the dismissive "shoulda been metric" rhetoric that floats around everywhere; as though you can just stop selling letter paper and force everyone to use A-series compatible envelopes, and convert the clean (if baroque) markings on the paper products to bizarre decimal fractions of a g/m² without any empathy for the old guard. Some people care about how Britain still drives on the wrong side of the road, but that doesn't mean they should berate you every time a drunk roadtripping Frenchman turns out into oncoming traffic.
  - cheerlessbog 8y ago
    Even in academia doesn't the US use CGS, and most of the rest of the world uses SI/MKS? We can't use the same physics textbooks.
    - mypalmike 8y ago
      I took high-school and college physics in the US around 30 years ago. It was all SI then, and I suspect it still is.
  - Symbiote 8y ago
    A British bus will be refuelled in litres, which I think was the point. > as though you can just stop selling letter paper and force everyone to use A-series compatible envelopes, and convert the clean (if baroque) markings on the paper products to bizarre decimal fractions of a g/m² without any empathy for the old guard. The first part was done in Britain in the 1950s, but with the weights rounded to convenient metric numbers.
darkpuma 8y ago
> Keep in mind that powered flight was basically entirely developed by Americans and pre-SI Brits The french played a very dominant role as well.
- microcolonel 8y ago
  > The french played a very dominant role as well. As far as I've known, that largely involved a tremendous number of English channel crossings, but I will look more into that so I don't stay ignorant; thanks. ;- )
  - billforsternz 8y ago
    Hopefully you're being deliberately ironic, but your comment indicates a purely anglo-centric perspective. Continental European endeavour irrelevant except when it intersects with the homeland!
  - willyt 8y ago
    Fuselage, Empennage, Ailerons...
    - EForEndeavour 8y ago
      To name a few more aviation terms derived from French... Aviation: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/aviation https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/aviation Aéroplane: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/aeroplane https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/aeroplane Hélicoptère: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/helicopter https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/helicopter Sortie: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sortie https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sortie
      - microcolonel 8y ago
        Hangar, Mayday (m'aider), Bombardier, Airport...
  - darkpuma 8y ago
    So an Frenchman, creator of he first practical monoplane, crosses the English channel before an Brit does... but the Channel is named for the English so the Brits get the credit? Nice dude... Here are a few places for you to begin your research: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_in_the_pioneer_era https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_in_the_pioneer_era https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_Semaine_d%27Aviation_de_la_Champagne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_Semaine_d%27Aviation_de... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Blériot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Blériot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soci%C3%A9t%C3%A9_pour_l%27aviation_et_ses_d%C3%A9riv%C3%A9s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soci%C3%A9t%C3%A9_pour_l%27avi... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%C3%A9ro-Club_de_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%C3%A9ro-Club_de_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornu_helicopter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornu_helicopter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27A%C3%A9rophile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27A%C3%A9rophile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Arm%C3%A9e_de_l%27Air_(1909%E2%80%931942) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Arm%C3%A9e_de_l... Aside: How many American-made components do you see with big bold French labels on them? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fdr_sidefront.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fdr_sidefront.jpg

eterm 8y ago

I'm British, so you don't need to explain using mixed systems, however in any kind of academic, engineering or scientific contexts metric units are used almost exclusively. Yes, people still refer to height in feet and inches a lot, and we'll drink a pint (a real pint! None of your mini-pints!), but that does change over time. For example older people will use stone and pounds for their weight but being younger the doc doesn't bother telling me my weight in anything but kilograms so I don't even know my weight except in Kg. Even in Britain, in almost all engineering contexts, SI units would be assumed. Your point about Americans assuming imperial units is precisely wwhy it's so dangerous that metrification hasn't happened there. If the US went metric, then there would no longer be any need to assume anything but metric anywhere, and it would be safer for it. Yes, there's a long standing tradition, but it only takes a couple of generations to completely change, and that would likely be hastened by being the last large country to do so and having a large cultural footprint on the rest of the world. If the US did convert to metric, in 3 or 4 generations the whole world would be metric, and there wouldn't be any "wrong assumptions", and it is making bad assumptions that lead to preventable failures. If China can manage to go metric, the US can too.

microcolonel 8y ago
> however in any kind of academic, engineering or scientific contexts metric units are used almost exclusively This is true in the United States as well, but fueling a commercial airplane is not an academic, scientific, or even an engineering exercise. It is as routine and pedestrian as refueling a bus. > Your point about Americans assuming imperial units is precisely wwhy it's so dangerous that metrification hasn't happened there. Or maybe it's an argument for why "metrification" is itself dangerous. The problem is the transition, not being on either side of the fence. It seems to me that the only safe mode of transition is first to dual readout, and only then to SI-exclusive. Don't get me wrong, I like SI units, I use them every day, and I don't long to spend any time multiplying and dividing by irregular fractions; I just don't like the dismissive "shoulda been metric" rhetoric that floats around everywhere; as though you can just stop selling letter paper and force everyone to use A-series compatible envelopes, and convert the clean (if baroque) markings on the paper products to bizarre decimal fractions of a g/m² without any empathy for the old guard. Some people care about how Britain still drives on the wrong side of the road, but that doesn't mean they should berate you every time a drunk roadtripping Frenchman turns out into oncoming traffic.
- cheerlessbog 8y ago
  Even in academia doesn't the US use CGS, and most of the rest of the world uses SI/MKS? We can't use the same physics textbooks.
  - mypalmike 8y ago
    I took high-school and college physics in the US around 30 years ago. It was all SI then, and I suspect it still is.
- Symbiote 8y ago
  A British bus will be refuelled in litres, which I think was the point. > as though you can just stop selling letter paper and force everyone to use A-series compatible envelopes, and convert the clean (if baroque) markings on the paper products to bizarre decimal fractions of a g/m² without any empathy for the old guard. The first part was done in Britain in the 1950s, but with the weights rounded to convenient metric numbers.

darkpuma 8y ago

> Keep in mind that powered flight was basically entirely developed by Americans and pre-SI Brits The french played a very dominant role as well.

microcolonel 8y ago
> The french played a very dominant role as well. As far as I've known, that largely involved a tremendous number of English channel crossings, but I will look more into that so I don't stay ignorant; thanks. ;- )
- billforsternz 8y ago
  Hopefully you're being deliberately ironic, but your comment indicates a purely anglo-centric perspective. Continental European endeavour irrelevant except when it intersects with the homeland!
- willyt 8y ago
  Fuselage, Empennage, Ailerons...
  - EForEndeavour 8y ago
    To name a few more aviation terms derived from French... Aviation: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/aviation https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/aviation Aéroplane: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/aeroplane https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/aeroplane Hélicoptère: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/helicopter https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/helicopter Sortie: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sortie https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sortie
    - microcolonel 8y ago
      Hangar, Mayday (m'aider), Bombardier, Airport...
- darkpuma 8y ago
  So an Frenchman, creator of he first practical monoplane, crosses the English channel before an Brit does... but the Channel is named for the English so the Brits get the credit? Nice dude... Here are a few places for you to begin your research: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_in_the_pioneer_era https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_in_the_pioneer_era https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_Semaine_d%27Aviation_de_la_Champagne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_Semaine_d%27Aviation_de... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Blériot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Blériot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soci%C3%A9t%C3%A9_pour_l%27aviation_et_ses_d%C3%A9riv%C3%A9s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soci%C3%A9t%C3%A9_pour_l%27avi... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%C3%A9ro-Club_de_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%C3%A9ro-Club_de_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornu_helicopter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornu_helicopter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27A%C3%A9rophile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27A%C3%A9rophile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Arm%C3%A9e_de_l%27Air_(1909%E2%80%931942) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Arm%C3%A9e_de_l... Aside: How many American-made components do you see with big bold French labels on them? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fdr_sidefront.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fdr_sidefront.jpg