4 ms·
> A Manhattan is a Martini but you replace dry vermouth with bitters, replace gin with sweet vermouth, and add whiskey. No, it's not. What's missing is a sens
by andybak 8y ago
> A Manhattan is a Martini but you replace dry vermouth with bitters, replace gin with sweet vermouth, and add whiskey.
No, it's not.
What's missing is a sense of "role". Spirits should map to spirits, liqueurs to liqueurs etc.
There's usually only a few "slots" with cocktails: one (or sometimes a few) base spirits, something aromatic such as bitters or a vermouth, a sweet thing and/or a citrus.
(I once made a spreadsheet that I dubbed "the period table of cocktails - turns out the gaps usually lead you to an obscure variation you'd never heard of)
- selestify 8y agoCare to share that spreadsheet? :)
- chias 8y agoI, too, would love to see this table :)
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- kevinmchugh 8y agoThere's also no awareness of building technique, so shaken and stirred drinks are collapsed.
- dkarl 8y agoIt's also missing a sense of quantity. Imagine starting a Manhattan with an ounce of bitters and two ounces of sweet vermouth. Or the Negroni: > A Negroni is a Manhattan but you replace bitters with campari and replace whiskey with gin. So a Negroni should have a couple of dashes of Campari.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- gav 8y ago> Or the Negroni Personally I think the classic Negroni is interesting because if you play with the ingredients (and/or ratios) in the right way you get a lot of interesting variations: - An Americano is a Negroni without the gin - A Boulevardier is a Negroni with the gin swapped for bourbon - A Black Negroni is a Negroni with the Campari swapped for an amaro (e.g. Averna) - A Negronino is a Negroni with part of the Campari swapped for Amaro Nonino - A Quill is a Negroni with the addition of 1/2 oz absinthe (There's boundless others, these are just some of my favorites.)
- neurobashing 8y agoI prefer ditching the Campari entirely and using Aperol.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- dkarl 8y agoGin, Aperol, and Lillet Blanc combined like in a Negroni make a beautiful drink.
- bsimpson 8y agoI've had relatives drinking negroni for decades, but I had never heard of those variations - thanks for the tip. As I know them, these are the classic variations of negroni: - sbagliato: prosecco instead of gin - Americano: soda instead of gin - bicicletta: white wine instead of Martini; soda instead of gin Of course, there's also the spritz - prosecco, Aperol, and soda. The Aperol can be swapped with Campari or amaro to your taste. One more random tidbit regarding Italian liquors - the traditional after dinner drink in Italy is an amaro. It's both quite strong (~40% alc) and quite sweet - almost syrupy. The name comes from the bitter herbs that give it its flavor/aroma. ("Amaro" literally means "bitter.") Amaro is served in a shot glass, but sipped like a bourbon. Each village/region makes its own amaro, with its own blend of herbs. For instance, Braulio is a minty amaro that comes from Bormio, a mountain town in the Alps. Over the past few years, it's become much easier to find amari in the US. We even have some varietals that my Italian friends don't know. (In Italy, Nonino is a grapa, not an amaro.) You have probably heard of amaretto - the almond liqueur. Its name means "little amaro." The most well-known brand is Disaronno. Saronno is a town near the Milan airport. Disaronno is "di Saronno," the amaro from the town of Saronno.
- agf 8y agoHe mentions that at the end of the article: > It’d be nice for the difference algorithm to know about ingredient types, so that it suggests, say, replacing vermouth with sugar (because they’re both there for making things way too sickly sweet), rather than replacing vermouth with vodka.
- p1necone 8y agoThat statement seems like complete nonsense to me before you even think about roles - a Martini only has two ingredients - gin and vermouth (and an olive/pickled onion/oyster/mothball/whatever as a garnish). It makes no sense to say "replace all the ingredients, and you get this other thing" - no shit.
- TheSoftwareGuy 8y agoDo you still have that spreadsheet? I would love to see it
- Mikeb85 8y agoEarly iterations of the Martini were actually very similar to today's Manhattan. They were equal parts gin/vermouth, with bitters added. The vermouth was gradually cut back, and the bitters removed. Versus a Manhattan which is 2-1 whiskey and sweet vermouth, plus bitters. But yeah, his reasoning is terrible and really doesn't seem to take into account cocktail components, their role, taste, etc...