4 ms·

And even then the model S's range isn't enough. I do a 500 mile weekend roundtrip about once every couple of months and there's no way it would work for that as

And even then the model S's range isn't enough. I do a 500 mile weekend roundtrip about once every couple of months and there's no way it would work for that as there's no place to charge overnight at the destination (250 miles away from home, which I do non-stop on a single tank of fuel). There are basically no fast chargers in the UK which you could guarantee being able to use on the route either, even if I didn't mind having to stop (which I do). This isn't a long journey for the UK, which is not a big country. The only way I could realistically own a pure EV as an only car would be to hire another car for these journeys and use an EV for shorter journeys but an EV wouldn't really be worth it money-wise just for shorter trips and I'd have to put up with an underpowered hire car and the hassle of picking up and returning for the long ones. Hybrids (not range-extenders like the i3) on the other hand do make sense and I suspect will see much better sales as people realise they don't all look like the (very ugly) Prius.

cptskippy 8y ago
Honestly I feel these types of comments do more harm to EV adoption than anything else as they're used as justification to not adopt an EV by those who otherwise could. Most EVs today support a flavor of DC fast charging beyond L2, a Leaf can be charged up to 80% in like 15 or 20 minutes. That sounds like a lot but when those chargers are in Market or Restaurant lots where you can charge and shop/eat then they make sense. I think the biggest issue today is the exclusivity of charge networks and proprietary chargers. I don't know your specific route but there are plenty of routes in the UK that can easily be done. Brighton to Inverness and back can be done in a Model 3 with only 5 hours of charging along the way. Not great but also not horrible if they can be combined with regular rest stops. In the US the charge networks were initially rolled out at odd locations that didn't make much sense but gradually they started putting them in office and apartment car parks and now thankfully in malls and retail areas where people actually go. I still don't understand why restaurants haven't adopted them more when you have a captive audience for 15+ minutes and can upsell meals by offering charging discounts. I guess as adoption climbs they might catch on.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > Most EVs today support a flavor of DC fast charging beyond L2, a Leaf can be charged up to 80% in like 15 or 20 minutes. That sounds like a lot Because it is a lot > but when those chargers are in Market or Restaurant lots where you can charge and shop/eat then they make sense. Which would be great, but that's generally not what the charging infrastructure is like today; there's now a decent probability of a route-convenient charger on a long trip, but there's not a great probability that it's in the parking lot of market or restaurant, and an even lower probability that it's one that you would have chosen but for the charger. Most of the market/restaurant chargers—mostly supermarkets or box stores like IKEA—I've seen are in urban areas, virtually none in the kind of places that are places you need to stop for fuel (or charge, with an EV) on the way between widely spaced urban areas.
  - cptskippy 8y ago
    I agree with you and at the same time those inadequacies aren't highlighted constructively. The comments are typically vague dismissals of the technology outright with unhelpful remarks like "this doesn't work for me (and probably not you) because of xyz boundary condition." I would much rather these people not say anything but ideally I would like to hear the feedback be more positive or suggestive in nature like "I drive a 500mi route semi-regularly and I just can't do it in an EV, I'd love if xyz existed so I could go all in on EVs."
    - tomatocracy 8y ago
      Where I think I disagree is that I don't see this as some corner case - to me it's one of the primary use cases for owning a car, and I'd wager the same is true for the population at large - perhaps even second most common after commuting. A huge number of people have relatives/family/friends a 3+ hour drive away. The most constructive answer, I think, is to prefer plug-in hybrids as a drive train option (perhaps the default option) on "normal" cars/SUVs which people actually want to own. This is what Volvo is doing for example. It has a weight (and therefore efficiency) cost but a plugin hybrid with a true 100+ mile range is still incredibly worthwhile. Don't let the best be the enemy of the good. There are still incentives to build out decent fast charging infrastructure in a plugin hybrid world - as stopping to charge instead of stopping for fuel has a cost advantage (though the time cost still needs solving - it's not just time to actually charge, it's also queueing time to be able to use a charger in many places).
zepearl 8y ago
I am waiting for the Volvo V60 (the variant with the smaller gas engine) and the new V40 (hoping that the V40 will be less expensive than the V40), both hybrid (battery range ~50km). The on-demand 4wd of the V60 (the electric motor drives the back wheels) would be a nice additional feature (not sure if it will be available for the V40). V60: https://d2t6ms4cjod3h9.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/223553_New-Volvo-V60-exterior.jpg https://d2t6ms4cjod3h9.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/201... V40 (prototype "40.2"): https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/galleries/x701/324248.jpg https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/galleries/x701/...

cptskippy 8y ago

Honestly I feel these types of comments do more harm to EV adoption than anything else as they're used as justification to not adopt an EV by those who otherwise could. Most EVs today support a flavor of DC fast charging beyond L2, a Leaf can be charged up to 80% in like 15 or 20 minutes. That sounds like a lot but when those chargers are in Market or Restaurant lots where you can charge and shop/eat then they make sense. I think the biggest issue today is the exclusivity of charge networks and proprietary chargers. I don't know your specific route but there are plenty of routes in the UK that can easily be done. Brighton to Inverness and back can be done in a Model 3 with only 5 hours of charging along the way. Not great but also not horrible if they can be combined with regular rest stops. In the US the charge networks were initially rolled out at odd locations that didn't make much sense but gradually they started putting them in office and apartment car parks and now thankfully in malls and retail areas where people actually go. I still don't understand why restaurants haven't adopted them more when you have a captive audience for 15+ minutes and can upsell meals by offering charging discounts. I guess as adoption climbs they might catch on.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> Most EVs today support a flavor of DC fast charging beyond L2, a Leaf can be charged up to 80% in like 15 or 20 minutes. That sounds like a lot Because it is a lot > but when those chargers are in Market or Restaurant lots where you can charge and shop/eat then they make sense. Which would be great, but that's generally not what the charging infrastructure is like today; there's now a decent probability of a route-convenient charger on a long trip, but there's not a great probability that it's in the parking lot of market or restaurant, and an even lower probability that it's one that you would have chosen but for the charger. Most of the market/restaurant chargers—mostly supermarkets or box stores like IKEA—I've seen are in urban areas, virtually none in the kind of places that are places you need to stop for fuel (or charge, with an EV) on the way between widely spaced urban areas.
- cptskippy 8y ago
  I agree with you and at the same time those inadequacies aren't highlighted constructively. The comments are typically vague dismissals of the technology outright with unhelpful remarks like "this doesn't work for me (and probably not you) because of xyz boundary condition." I would much rather these people not say anything but ideally I would like to hear the feedback be more positive or suggestive in nature like "I drive a 500mi route semi-regularly and I just can't do it in an EV, I'd love if xyz existed so I could go all in on EVs."
  - tomatocracy 8y ago
    Where I think I disagree is that I don't see this as some corner case - to me it's one of the primary use cases for owning a car, and I'd wager the same is true for the population at large - perhaps even second most common after commuting. A huge number of people have relatives/family/friends a 3+ hour drive away. The most constructive answer, I think, is to prefer plug-in hybrids as a drive train option (perhaps the default option) on "normal" cars/SUVs which people actually want to own. This is what Volvo is doing for example. It has a weight (and therefore efficiency) cost but a plugin hybrid with a true 100+ mile range is still incredibly worthwhile. Don't let the best be the enemy of the good. There are still incentives to build out decent fast charging infrastructure in a plugin hybrid world - as stopping to charge instead of stopping for fuel has a cost advantage (though the time cost still needs solving - it's not just time to actually charge, it's also queueing time to be able to use a charger in many places).

zepearl 8y ago

I am waiting for the Volvo V60 (the variant with the smaller gas engine) and the new V40 (hoping that the V40 will be less expensive than the V40), both hybrid (battery range ~50km). The on-demand 4wd of the V60 (the electric motor drives the back wheels) would be a nice additional feature (not sure if it will be available for the V40). V60: https://d2t6ms4cjod3h9.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/223553_New-Volvo-V60-exterior.jpg https://d2t6ms4cjod3h9.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/201... V40 (prototype "40.2"): https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/galleries/x701/324248.jpg https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/galleries/x701/...